Author Topic: Oil/Gas mix options  (Read 496 times)

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Offline reynog

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Oil/Gas mix options
« on: May 15, 2012, 09:43:56 am »
I read an older post about not using the Husky recommended 50:1 mix.  Some were using 40:1 and some 32:1.
What's the general opinion on mixes to run with today's ethanol polluted, I mean enriched, gas?
Also, are the synthetic oils the way to go?  I've been using the standard Husky oil at 50:1 with 93 octane in my 455, 350, 323L and my Stihl MS180C.  Should I be adding a shot of Stabil in the mix?
Tell me more about Klotz oil too please.

Thanks, Glenn

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Offline farmboy

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Re: Oil/Gas mix options
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2012, 11:18:11 am »
Synthetic is definately the way to go for max. protection esp w/ethanol fuel.  I'm still able to get 93 non-e gas 93 is def. what to use.  Used Baileys Woodland Pro dino oil @32:1 for 3-4 yrs.  Their oil is made by Spectrum Chemical Co who I understand makes Stihl oil for the US.  HuskyXP is semi-synthetic, Stihl Ultra full synthetic, Poulan synthectic (Walmart) is reported to be good oil.  IMO and going by much reading Belray H1R synthectic @ 32:1 is the best.  I'm using HuskyXP right now @36:1 (cause I have a bunch of it).  When I use/sell the XP I'm going to Ultra @ 36:1(cause i have it) when it's gone it's Belray H1R @32:1.  Stabil is not needed most good oils have a stabilizer in them.  Here is some reading.  Make up your mind about oils.  Again In My Opinion.
http://www.bridgestonemotorcycle.com/documents/oilpremix6.pdf
http://www.geistware.com/rcmodeling/articles/oil_test/index.
htmhttp://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm This is how I've done em (cars/hotrods, trucks, saws).
Shep

Offline Al Smith

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Re: Oil/Gas mix options
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2012, 11:51:32 am »
You could hash this topic out for the next 6 years and nobody will come to an agreement of which ratio or which oil .

People might for example swear on a stack of Bibles that running saws or other 2 cycles on heavy oil mix effectively makes them run leaner .Forgetting of course it's the ratio of fuel to air not fuel to oil is what determines the ratio of weather lean or rich .If that were the case of heavy oil mix the old saws and boat motors would have been toast 40 years ago one should think .It's a total amazement some have lasted until this very day . ;)

FWIW I've taken apart saws that have not ran for 30-40 years .When they did it was on 16 to 1 using 30 WT mix oil . Almost no appriaciable wear .Nice shiny piston ,nothing wrong with them .---soooo there you go ---

Offline nmurph

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Re: Oil/Gas mix options
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2012, 04:07:08 pm »
Al, a carb squirts a certain amount of fluid, not know how much fuel or oil it contains. The oil is essentially uncombustible and displaces that amount of fuel, hence decreasing the amount of fuel to air. I understand it is probably not a big deal with a well tuned engine and going from say 50:1 to 40:1 isn't going to hurt anything. But going from 50:1 - 32:1 on a motor already tuned to the edge of lean might be difference enough to push the saw to the point of damage.

Offline Al Smith

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Re: Oil/Gas mix options
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2012, 07:42:05 am »
Okay ,now what do lean fuel to air mixtures do --burn fast/ hot .What does oil do ,lubricate .It also doesn't burn as hot as gasoline .

Now I'm not advocating running 16 to 1 mixtures especially with modern mix oils .Conversely though the very idea that if going from 50 to 1 to 32 to 1 do I see nor will ever believe is possible to harm an engine .Now the other way might but I doubt that too unless the engine was set up real lean .

Using that line of thought though it could be assumed then that most race tuned engines would be ran on 50 or leaner to one yet in actuality most are ran on 32 to 1 .So does that mean that a majority of most race engine builders  are ignorant of the fact that more oil makes a leaner mix ?

Now keep in mind this is only for purposes of debate because I could care less what gasoline to oil ratio anybody uses .As far as I'm concerned they can run Amzoil at 100 to 1 or mix 40 WT non detergent at 16 to 1 and fog for mosquitoes .

However I've heard this theory before ,didn't agree with it then or now . ;)

Rambling on I'd be very interested if there is any bone-fide documentaion on this subject rather than he said she said . I'd just about bet you could Google it and get 900 opinions .890 from forums and 10 from oil companies all claiming to make the best oil .

Offline nmurph

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Re: Oil/Gas mix options
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2012, 08:01:33 am »
I should have added---

Going from 50:1 - 32:1 results in a shift to the lean. Obviously, a saw should be tuned to the individual conditions, mix included. You know that race saws are tuned to the ragged edge. They are three cuts and off. Having extra oil does help with extending the life of a lean-tuned engine...I konw you know better ;D

Online 660magnum

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Re: Oil/Gas mix options
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2012, 10:15:06 am »
There's always the factor to consider about how much does your oil contribute to the combustion process?

Mineral oils such as Pennzoil 2 stroke air cooled contribute more to combustion than do synthetic combinations such as Amsoil.

So the rich-lean situation concerning changing from 50:1 to 32:1 would have a lot of variables.

It would be best to take it as it comes and tune for effect with the fuel mixture, cutting load, and temperature you happen to be running at the time.
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Offline Al Smith

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Re: Oil/Gas mix options
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2012, 12:40:53 pm »
 :D Food for thought if not just a base for lively discussion as it always is .

FWIW I had already ready the report via Bridgestone which was written by Gordon Jennings concerning the subject which covers the topic pretty well .As it turns out it seems myself and Mr.  Jennings agree on a lot of things .  ;)

Offline pete

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Re: Oil/Gas mix options
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2012, 07:15:07 am »
Well i have probably broken all the rules for the last 5 years I have used outboard two stroke oil valvoline at 25 to 1 yes I have removed the mesh from all my mufflers no I have not stuffed any thing up it was valvoline'  why because I had a heap given to me and when I mentioned this on another site I went back to check the bottle and it stated for water cooled or air cooled engines.
I have just purchased my first oil in a long time still valvoline but for air cooled and am going up a bit o 32.1  but will sit on that regardless of manufacturers recs.  I cut wood with mainly older saws because I enjoy it and when I am in a hurry thats when the double 50s come out to play and a stihl and husky or  ;D ;D

Offline Al Smith

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Re: Oil/Gas mix options
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2012, 07:20:29 pm »
Well nobody said outboard oil wont work or SAE 30 Wt non detergent .It's just that modern chainsaw mix oil is better .

We ran those old iron cylinder Macs for years with motor oil .People might argue they foul plugs ,carbon the piston and 10 thousand other things but it's just not true .They would smoke like they were burning pine knots though .

The only time the old outboards which used 16 to 1 would foul plugs is if they idled too long .That was simple enough to fix .Just run them wide open and slowly lean them until they fired on all cylnders then richen them back up .You didn't lean them far enough you'd burn a hole in the piston just some .

Offline pete

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Re: Oil/Gas mix options
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2012, 06:49:20 am »
I have now parted with my oldest outboards and 1 a seagull ran at 10 to 1 smoked like hell 30 weight oil,I dont know how some of those old birds would go with modern oils.  The guy that bought tis one will restore her and bring it back down my way in just over a year for the wooden boat festival,And as he left he promised me a chance to run it once restored.

Offline Al Smith

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Re: Oil/Gas mix options
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2012, 10:03:11 pm »
Well it would stand to reason if a saw made in the mid 50's using modern mix oil at 32 or 40 to 1 would do fine that an old outbord would do likewise .

 

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