Chainsaw Repair

Husqvarna - Stihl - Poulan - Jonsered - Dolmar chainsaws and more => Husqvarna => Topic started by: Cut4fun . on February 03, 2013, 04:03:17 pm

Title: 550 346 Comparison
Post by: Cut4fun . on February 03, 2013, 04:03:17 pm
Me and 660mag each ran the saws in hard maple today to compare the 550xp NE 346xp and a new to me Bad Boy 3450.

Each saw ran the same stihl rsc chain in 3/8 050 60dl with the bar buried in the cuts.

The 346xp is broken in, the 550xp is still on it's first tank, 3450 was just started up by me for the first time. 3450 still had the epa carb stops on it (was just a hair lean for as cold as it was) but a real good runner indeed.

(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g289/doemaster789/346xpg262xp/5503463450006_zps31423fcc.jpg)
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g289/doemaster789/346xpg262xp/5503463450005_zpsefc9f800.jpg)
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g289/doemaster789/346xpg262xp/5503463450004_zps89a5b09d.jpg)
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g289/doemaster789/346xpg262xp/5503463450003_zpsda47a4c9.jpg)
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g289/doemaster789/346xpg262xp/5503463450001_zpsae1419af.jpg)
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g289/doemaster789/346xpg262xp/5503463450002_zps0a7f4a45.jpg)

Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: 660magnum on February 03, 2013, 04:54:19 pm
When we first started out the weather wasn't all that bad with the temperature around 19F with the wind SW 4 mph and hazy.

Honestly I couldn't tell much difference in power between the 550 and the 346XP NE.

The 550, which had little more than a tank of gas through it, was rather cold natured on start up.  (I'm not used to the new style switch yet.)
After a little warm up which amounted to walking to the wood pile with the saw running, the 550 ran just fine mixture wise in the cuts. No lean out, rich flutter or anything. This saw had the 3/8  RSC X 60DL X 16" Power Match bar.

I played with pressure and feel versus cutting speed while in the old silver maple. The 550 cut very well to let it more or less feed itself. If you pushed much, it would slow and the clutch would slip. But to ease up, it cut very fast. Overall it was pleasant to use.

The 346XP NE responded almost identical in the wood with the same bar and chain.

What I did notice about the 346 was that it started up cold with the choke on. It was 19F outside air temperature. I flicked the choke off and let it run at a moderate speed until I got to the wood pile. We checked the RPM and it was 14,000 (No limiter on the coil). In the cut the feel of the torque, cutting speed and cutting action were not enough different from the 550 to notice.

I had the impression that the 346 had gone a little lean as the engine temperature built up for to lift up on the saw in the cut, it would scream beyond 14,000. It needed to be richened up for the cold outside air temperature?

This makes you appreciate the newer 550 with its Auto tune feature. There were no mixture events with the 550.

Then cut4fun got out the Poulan 3450 Bad Boy. It was lean too but with the stops still on the carb, all he could do was put the needle as rich as it would go against the stop. Before the cut the 3450 seemed to be very healthy as I think it has the same carb and boot as the Poulan 3750? In the cut the mixture was OK.

The 3450 though it is 5 cc bigger than the 550 and 346, did not have the RPM in the cut that the Huskies did. It was noticeably slower though still a nice chainsaw. We would have thought it great if we were not following the newer Husqvarna chainsaws with it.

While running the 3450, the wind picked up and made it miserable out at the wood pile. So we wrapped things up and I went home.

Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: man of stihl on February 03, 2013, 05:16:52 pm
Thanks for your input.
Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: 660magnum on February 03, 2013, 05:22:51 pm
We did not have any nice cants to time cuts in between the 550 and the 346. That might be the only way to tell any difference in their action?

The 550 was essentially out of the box and the story may be different as it gets more time on it?

But I did notice that if I had a 550 that I would be running a 3/8 X 16" bar on it.
Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: 660magnum on February 03, 2013, 09:49:33 pm
One thing that cut4fun noticed on the 550 and brought to my attention is that the plastic oil pump is rather exposed because the chainsaw has a external clutch. If you are a guy that has the chain jump off all the time, sooner or later, you are going to catch the oil pump with the chain?
Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: ms460woodchuck on February 03, 2013, 11:44:54 pm
 Thanks for the input guys. So what do ya think of that new 550 ya got from me since ya got a chance to run it Kevin?
Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: rms61moparman on February 04, 2013, 05:48:47 am


Youall should have pulled the limiters on that 3450 and given it something to eat!LOL
It probably would have made a little better showing with a few groceries down its neck!

Were the two Huskys $300.00 better than the Poulan?


Mike
Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: Cut4fun . on February 04, 2013, 07:51:07 am


Youall should have pulled the limiters on that 3450 and given it something to eat!LOL
It probably would have made a little better showing with a few groceries down its neck!

Were the two Huskys $300.00 better than the Poulan?


Mike


Mike by the time we had gotten to the 3450.  The wind had picked up and my fingers were frozen with my brown jersey gloves on. The 3450 and 346xp were both a little lean, 3450 more so though. 3450 right around 14k when checked on tach to see (even though our ears knew so)  max is 13.8k and I like to run them fatter then that. The 346 started around 14k too.

$300-$400 difference in cutting firewood. Nope  to be honest.  Where the 2 huskys shined imo is the almost 2lbs less pho weight and balance.  The balance of the 550 is even better then the 346 imo. Now if were testing a 3000 305 3300 335 the pho weight would have been less then a lb difference.

IMO I felt the 550 had a slight edge on the 346 on torque in the cut even though the 550 was on it's 1st tank and 346 was broke in.  Seemed dead even in the cuts self feeding. When pushing I noticed the 346 was has  much softer AV and gave. The 550 I didnt notice this, but they are new av.  The 3450 had less torque in the cut, but the chain speed and cut still seemed to be right on the tails of the other 2.

The reason I like 3/8 on the small 3 cube saws that have the balls to pull it. Besides being quicker in the cut is that I deal with firewood cutters bucking hardwoods, we aint worried about limbing etc.  If I am limbing I am using a smaller saw then anyways with 3/8LP or 325 too. Mine decision is based on quicker cuts and bucking hardwoods for firewood for the 3/8.

I have firewood guys wanting me to switch their saws from 325 to 3/8 all the time  if their saw can handle it I do. None has never ask to go back afterwords either.  ;)

Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: Energo70 on February 06, 2013, 03:06:42 pm
I feel that 550XP is slightly better performer than 346XP, 550xp don't like to be pushed into the wood because auto tune detect the change and it takes a while to compensate... there's a clutch change for 2013 models too.
Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: Cut4fun . on February 06, 2013, 07:07:57 pm
3 of us had a mini gtg today running  muffler modded 550, 550 stock muffler, 346 50cc stock muffler,  346 45cc woods ported, redmax 5000 woods ported. The 2 550's and 346 ran the same chain for testing. Everything ran 3/8 16

We ran a stock with muffler mod 550xp and a stock muffler 550xp back to back with 3/8 16" bars buried for most of whole cuts. 

550 with muffler mod quickest was 12.46 seconds

550 with stock muffler and 1st tank  13.89 seconds

Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: Cut4fun . on February 06, 2013, 07:10:05 pm
there's a clutch change for 2013 models too.

I read about it going back to a 2 shoe clutch like the 346 had.  Any known reason why? Lighter = quicker spool up or what?
Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: Energo70 on February 07, 2013, 08:21:16 am
Three spring clutch had a problem with the spring brackage more than usuall on other models.
Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: 660magnum on February 07, 2013, 08:32:52 am
I was examining a 550 three shoe clutch yesterday. The shoes have very nice detail with a sand blasted finish on the friction surface. The clutch drum was in three pieces that were furnace brazed together. (Hub, flange, ring) The ring appeared to be cut from a seamless mechanical tube.
Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: 660magnum on February 07, 2013, 10:43:42 am
3 of us had a mini gtg today running  muffler modded 550, 550 stock muffler, 346 50cc stock muffler,  346 45cc woods ported, redmax 5000 woods ported. The 2 550's and 346 ran the same chain for testing. Everything ran 3/8 16

We ran a stock with muffler mod 550xp and a stock muffler 550xp back to back with 3/8 16" bars buried for most of whole cuts. 

550 with muffler mod quickest was 12.46 seconds

550 with stock muffler and 1st tank  13.89 seconds

Some observations about these two 550's . . .

The one with the muffler outlet opened up would free run beyond 14000 and go into the ignition limiter. I don't think it had more than two or three tanks of fuel through it?

The other completely original 550 with not a whole tank of fuel run through it would free run at 13740 rpm.

Obviously the mixture was different in these two? Both had been run about about the same amount that day with about a half dozen buried cuts in silver maple.

The outside air temperature was around 27F

I have no clue as to the serial number differences of these two?

Another observation was that I had my completely stock 346XP NE there and it didn't run as fast in the cut as the 550's and there was noticeably less torque. All the chainsaws were running the same 3/8 X 60DL Stihl RSC chain and Oregon Power Match Bar that we swapped onto them.

Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: man of stihl on February 07, 2013, 06:30:14 pm
I figured the mm 550 would have a much better time than the stock 550. Thanks for the comparison.
Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: Cut4fun on February 07, 2013, 07:26:35 pm
My memory must be getting bad. Dont remember the max rpm's before.

Cylinder displacement    50.1 cc
Power output    3.75 hp
Maximum power speed    10200 rpm
Maximum recommended engine speed    14000 rpm
Fuel tank volume    17.58 fl oz
Fuel consumption    446 g/kWh
Idling speed    2800 rpm
Spark plug    NGK CMR6H
Electrode gap    0.02 "
Torque, max.    2.8 Nm/6900 rpm
Air filter type    Nylon 44µ




Alternative spark plugs for NGK CMR6H:
Details about NGK CMR6H:

    Threaddiameter: 10mm
    Threadreach: 12.7mm
    Seattype: flat
    Hexsize: 16mm
    Tipconfiguration: non projected
    Construction: Standard construction
    Terminaltype: Solid

Possible spark plugs:

    Bosch USR7AC
    Champion RZ7C
    Honda 31916-ZOH-003
    NGK stk 3365

Convert another spark plug:
Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: procarbine2k1 on February 08, 2013, 04:44:28 pm
[
I figured the mm 550 would have a much better time than the stock 550. Thanks for the comparison.

It feels a lot stronger than stock, I was surprised there wasnt a bigger difference in the times shown either. I wouldnt let those times say too much either. I will get a cant squared up in the near future and get some more times posted. You are more than welcome to give it a whirl at the next GTG too. The stopwatch stuff isnt really my thing, but am curious what the difference would be with a 7t 3/8 and 8t .325. I personally like .325 better on 50cc saws regardless of power, but grabbed a 3/8 rim from Kevin so I will be able to fool around with the 3/8 setup off of my 262.
BTW, that 550 doesnt have much more time on it than Kevins does- but it does seem to be breaking in pretty good. I still dont think they are as tight as the MS261's were when new.
And as far as the muffler, I did mine similar to tzed's. Nothing radical, just for firewood. Left the screen intact as well. It ended up being a lot louder than I anticipated too for some reason

All in all, I wont turn down a day to run some saws and bs a little. That EHP Redmax is a runner!
Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: Cut4fun . on February 08, 2013, 10:39:42 pm
[
I figured the mm 550 would have a much better time than the stock 550. Thanks for the comparison.

I will get a cant squared up in the near future and get some more times posted.

I wouldnt mind testing 7 - 8 325 and the 7 3/8 in a clean cant.    8)

Then maybe test some of these new sweet azz looking square chains our neighbor is turning out to see how they cut.  ;)
Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: procarbine2k1 on February 09, 2013, 03:32:27 pm
No doubt, I was very impressed with that loop of square.

I dont think it will be much hassle to come up with an 10x10 or something, will probably end up being ash though. Keep hold of your 550, weve got some more times to run...
Wouldnt hurt to have an excuse to run that Redmax a little more too haha.
Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: ms460woodchuck on February 10, 2013, 08:18:36 am
 
3 of us had a mini gtg today running  muffler modded 550, 550 stock muffler, 346 50cc stock muffler,  346 45cc woods ported, redmax 5000 woods ported. The 2 550's and 346 ran the same chain for testing. Everything ran 3/8 16

We ran a stock with muffler mod 550xp and a stock muffler 550xp back to back with 3/8 16" bars buried for most of whole cuts. 

550 with muffler mod quickest was 12.46 seconds

550 with stock muffler and 1st tank  13.89 seconds

Some observations about these two 550's . . .

The one with the muffler outlet opened up would free run beyond 14000 and go into the ignition limiter. I don't think it had more than two or three tanks of fuel through it?

The other completely original 550 with not a whole tank of fuel run through it would free run at 13740 rpm.

Obviously the mixture was different in these two? Both had been run about about the same amount that day with about a half dozen buried cuts in silver maple.

The outside air temperature was around 27F

I have no clue as to the serial number differences of these two?

Another observation was that I had my completely stock 346XP NE there and it didn't run as fast in the cut as the 550's and there was noticeably less torque. All the chainsaws were running the same 3/8 X 60DL Stihl RSC chain and Oregon Power Match Bar that we swapped onto them.



 If he Kevin did not change the fuel in the new 550 that he got from me then it is running stihl ultra at 44:1
Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: Cut4fun . on February 10, 2013, 09:29:46 am

 If he Kevin did not change the fuel in the new 550 that he got from me then it is running stihl ultra at 44:1

Thats one of the first things I do when I get a saw in.  dump mix and use  32:1 with klotz original 100% synthetic KL-200
Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: Cut4fun . on February 10, 2013, 09:31:27 am

 If he Kevin did not change the fuel in the new 550 that he got from me then it is running stihl ultra at 44:1

Thats one of the first things I do when I get a saw in.  dump mix and use  32:1 with klotz original 100% synthetic KL-200
Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: ms460woodchuck on February 10, 2013, 10:26:32 pm
32:1...What the heck Kevin?  ;)
Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: 660magnum on February 10, 2013, 10:54:17 pm
He doesn't have any piston/ring trouble either
Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: Cut4fun . on February 11, 2013, 12:11:42 pm
32:1...What the heck Kevin?  ;)

pouring oil out of quarts, the 4oz is so much easier for me to measure over the 40:1.  ;)  I just put 20oz to 5gal and 8oz to 2gal and go.  ;D 
Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: ms460woodchuck on February 11, 2013, 03:25:18 pm
He doesn't have any piston/ring trouble either

 Neither have I at 44:1.
Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: ms460woodchuck on February 11, 2013, 03:33:58 pm
32:1...What the heck Kevin?  ;)

pouring oil out of quarts, the 4oz is so much easier for me to measure over the 40:1.  ;)  I just put 20oz to 5gal and 8oz to 2gal and go.  ;D 

 I totally understand I was just messin
Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: Cut4fun on February 11, 2013, 04:12:11 pm
32:1...What the heck Kevin?  ;)

pouring oil out of quarts, the 4oz is so much easier for me to measure over the 40:1.  ;)  I just put 20oz to 5gal and 8oz to 2gal and go.  ;D 

 I totally understand I was just messin

So am I. Just hard to express it in type. LOL
Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: Cut4fun . on February 16, 2013, 02:26:46 pm
Anyone try a 20" on the 550 in 325 or 3/8?  I'm thinking of throwing a 20" and 3/8 in 33TS = 76LG
Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: HolmenTree on February 17, 2013, 12:05:35 am
Anyone try a 20" on the 550 in 325 or 3/8?  I'm thinking of throwing a 20" and 3/8 in 33TS = 76LG
I got 18" on mine in .325, but a 20" may be nice.
Yes a Stihl 33 Topic Super 3/8" chisel chain would be an excellent choice for the 550XP, beautiful smooth quick cutting chain, I still have the Oregon 76 LG chains you sent me, still in their boxes.
Are you finding alot of the Stihl TS chain?
Title: Re: 550 346 3450 Comparison
Post by: Cut4fun on February 18, 2013, 01:37:47 pm
Any one know of a stihl 261 being run local we could compare with too?
Title: Re: 550 346 Comparison
Post by: HolmenTree on February 28, 2013, 10:55:12 am
As I said earlier I just finished up my speedcutting event here at our local winter festival, running a pair of 550XPs side by side on their first tank of fuel. Close to 40 men and 15 women used them in the 10"x10" spruce.
It was a warm day for us at  23F with the sun shining, didn't have the blue winter covers on the rewind housings for good reason, but they would have been nice to keep the saws a little warmer when we took a 10 minute break between the mens/women.

When the 1st pair of women went up , one of the women just couldn't settle down and relax with the saw so I had to disqualify her . She stalled the saw in the 1st cut and then with a blink of the eye she started it in the cut and then stalled it again. I gave her a second chance thinking the saw wasn't warmed up enough but she did the same thing all over again, I waved here down and escorted her off the stage. After the competiton and when the crowds left I gave her and a few next year wannabes some time with the 550s just to give them a little experience. Even had a young exchange student from France on the 550.
First time I saw a production saw stall in the cut like I did here, as said earlier the auto tune just couldn't compensate quick enough and the new style aggressive clutch may have had something to do with it too.
Of the other 54 competitors there was no other stalling.

From what I've seen of the 550 in the cut with .325 chisel is good "holds its own" torque. Almost like electric motor torque, then with the second or so of rev-boost it's hyper.
At the moment I'm about a month away from getting back to cutting wood with my tree service, still 3 ft of snow on the ground and below freezing. I'm presently getting my new saw work shop finished and things put into order [and boy do I have alot of boxes of parts etc to get into order :o] So I'm looking forward to comparing the 550 to the 346. I'm interested in this new 2013 550 with the upgrades so hopefully in a months time I can buy one.
I'm gonna try several b/c options, I have some loops of the 76LG -3/8 to try out and some Stihl 33 Topic Super is on the way.
I'm going with the 18" seeing I'll be doing alot of limbing and small removals with the 550.
Having said that I'll replace the dogs with the smooth bumper available. I have no 550 IPL but my 560 /562 IPL shows the 560's #525 34 76-01 smooth bumper may fit.
Title: Re: 550 346 Comparison
Post by: 660magnum on February 28, 2013, 11:02:39 am
http://www.husqvarna.com/ddoc/HUSI/HUSI2011_AAaa/HUSI2011_AAaa__62.pdf

2013-01  use print to file
http://www.husqvarna.com/ddoc/HUSI/HUSI2013_AAaa/HUSI2013_AAaa__04.pdf
Title: Re: 550 346 Comparison
Post by: HolmenTree on February 28, 2013, 11:33:28 am
http://www.husqvarna.com/ddoc/HUSI/HUSI2011_AAaa/HUSI2011_AAaa__62.pdf

2013-01  use print to file
http://www.husqvarna.com/ddoc/HUSI/HUSI2013_AAaa/HUSI2013_AAaa__04.pdf
Thankyou for those 660magnum,
I was able to print both the 2011 and 2013 IPLs. I see the new 2 shoe clutch in the newer copy. Also the smooth bumper #577 88 72-01
Title: Re: 550 346 Comparison
Post by: HolmenTree on February 28, 2013, 11:56:09 am
Speaking of those smooth bumpers #577 88 72-01,  I'm gonna order 4 of them.
1 for my new 550 and 3 for my 3 festival dedicated 550s.
Speed cutting in the 10"x10" cant the smooth bumper works alot better, especially for the competitors with little saw experience.
Title: Re: 550 346 Comparison
Post by: 660magnum on February 28, 2013, 12:09:23 pm
For cutting 8"-10"-12" cants at a GTG there's nothing beats the smooth bumpers.

In the past, I removed the spikes altogether if I didn't have smooth bumpers.
Title: Re: 550 346 Comparison
Post by: John Mc on February 28, 2013, 01:31:12 pm
What are the changes to the 550 for 2013, other than the clutch?
Title: Re: 550 346 Comparison
Post by: 660magnum on February 28, 2013, 01:39:30 pm
Some of the changes like the coil were done back in the early fall
Title: Re: 550 346 Comparison
Post by: HolmenTree on February 28, 2013, 02:26:08 pm
What are the changes to the 550 for 2013, other than the clutch?
I looked through both 2011 and 2013 IPLs fairly thoroughly and only could find the difference in the clutch.

 P/C, crank / crankcase, carb and software all have the same part#s. I may have missed something though, will check later.
Title: Re: 550 346 Comparison
Post by: brokenbudget on February 28, 2013, 03:26:03 pm
Speaking of those smooth bumpers #577 88 72-01,  I'm gonna order 4 of them.
1 for my new 550 and 3 for my 3 festival dedicated 550s.
Speed cutting in the 10"x10" cant the smooth bumper works alot better, especially for the competitors with little saw experience.

i like the smoothies on the 50ish cc saws for everything. makes bucking fire wood easier. for me anyway.
Title: Re: 550 346 Comparison
Post by: HolmenTree on February 28, 2013, 04:32:46 pm
Speaking of those smooth bumpers #577 88 72-01,  I'm gonna order 4 of them.
1 for my new 550 and 3 for my 3 festival dedicated 550s.
Speed cutting in the 10"x10" cant the smooth bumper works alot better, especially for the competitors with little saw experience.
i like the smoothies on the 50ish cc saws for everything. makes bucking fire wood easier. for me anyway.
Yes you're right, bucking with a 50cc saw I don't expect to gain any thing with its dogs. For a limbing saw the dogs only snag and get in the way.
Title: Re: 550 346 Comparison
Post by: brokenbudget on February 28, 2013, 04:40:12 pm
Speaking of those smooth bumpers #577 88 72-01,  I'm gonna order 4 of them.
1 for my new 550 and 3 for my 3 festival dedicated 550s.
Speed cutting in the 10"x10" cant the smooth bumper works alot better, especially for the competitors with little saw experience.
i like the smoothies on the 50ish cc saws for everything. makes bucking fire wood easier. for me anyway.
Yes you're right, bucking with a 50cc saw I don't expect to gain any thing with its dogs. For a limbing saw the dogs only snag and get in the way.

i find you tire out alot quicker with the dogs on a saw. you end up holding on to the (rear handle especialy) handles and are constantly pulling back on the saw. if they don't have the option for the bumpers, i make them into them.
Title: Re: 550 346 Comparison
Post by: HolmenTree on February 28, 2013, 04:43:02 pm
there's a clutch change for 2013 models too.
I was curious and just pulled the sprocket cover off one of the 49th week- 2012 550XP's I have here.
 Look what I found......... I guess I won't have to wait for a 2013 550XP, my dealer has 4 more of these 2012 550s in stock already. ;D