Chainsaw Repair
Husqvarna - Stihl - Poulan - Jonsered - Dolmar chainsaws and more => Husqvarna => Topic started by: Cory on February 21, 2013, 08:46:44 pm
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Hi everyone, new here, got the link from the Treehouse, thanks!!
3 of my old, everyday-use 372s were stolen a few months ago, they were great saws, no complaints at all, they had amazing longevity as well. So I replaced them with 3 new ones cuz why change a good thing (though I wish I had read the 562 thread before and I would have tried one of them instead).
The new ones cut and handle very well just like the old ones and the fuel economy seems to be a bit better too. One MAJOR COMPLAINT though: they start very, very poorly and hard.
When cold and pulling choked, one annoyance is that the cough you listen for when pulling, after which you off the choke and then expect it to start on the next 2 or 3 pulls, is barely audible, which caused many flooding situations until I got used to it.
But the MAJOR PROBLEM is that starting them when warm takes 4 to 7 pulls and that is ridiculous IMO. The brass tacks of it is that it caused nasty elbow tendonitis in me, and my 23 year old climber who is strong as an ox says it f's up his shoulder. And god forbid if a warm saw has been sitting awhile and youve got to decide whether to choke it or not based on how cold it may have gotten, well if you guess wrong youre looking at 10 to 15 pulls. It gets so you are hesitant to turn off the saw, and you send idling saws up to the climber so he wont have to start them aloft.
I start the saws whenever possible with them resting on the ground which is something Ive never done before and is a hassle and a time waster.
What say you, saw experts?? All input is thankfully appreciated.
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I'm just taking a WAG here. But have you tried opening (richen) the L side on the carb up some?
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When it has been started do you put it in "throttle lock" position? Out AND in with choke before pull, it holds the trottle open about 10%.
Huge difference in the X-torq's than the old ones I bet.
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I was at cut4fun's shop a couple weeks ago and the temperature was in the teens (F).
I had a 346XP and it was cold soaked. It started on the third pull with the choke full on which is very unusual. I shut the choke off and it continued to run but acted very lean. The saw had not been run since probably 70 F weather. The saw was still lean after warming up. I eventually had to open the needles some. When warmer weather comes I will have to lean it out some.
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The Low jet is turned virtually as far ccw as it will go, just a tiny bit more ccw and the screw stops.
Trim the limiter tabs (if plastic like on the old 372's) off so you can get full adjustment.
What is used on the new 372 XT carb for stops? Never had one in here yet.
Husqvarna 372 x torq IPL http://ebookbrowse.com/husqvarna-parts-list-manual-372xp-xtorq-2010-04-pdf-d378025116
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Found it on carb breakdown IPL. Not plastic tabs anymore. Appears to be those metal stops like I seen on my newer 338.
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g289/doemaster789/376/372XTcarb_zpsbb0627a1.gif)
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I have one of these. You push the ring around the needle valve in with a scribe or point and turn the screw all you want.
You can take the screw out and the ring can be trimmed to remove the tab and everything replaced.
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Found it on carb breakdown IPL. Not plastic tabs anymore. Appears to be those metal stops like I seen on my newer 338.
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g289/doemaster789/376/372XTcarb_zpsbb0627a1.gif)
With a 19.05 mm venturi, that carb should be a very good option for many non-strato top ends, including the 372xp ones....
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You have to use the 385 boot and flange as well as mounting screws and sleeves. The air filter elbow and blue choke rod parts have to come from the 372 XT to adapt this carb to a old style 372.
The problem is that the carb bolts are not straight across but one is high and the other low and they are longer
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Two problems here, and two different solutions. 8)
Cold start: Do NOT use the deco. Not sure why, but I suspect this top mount deco drops the compression a little too much in addition to makeing that first "pop" harder to hear. Especially when the saw is new. People would come in with flooded saws that would really fog up the parking lot when we got them going. Part of the problem though was guys continuing to pull with the choke on waiting for that pop. One is a good friend of mine and fellow member on these sites. I watched him trying to start his 2172 and counted 20 pulls with the choke on before I yelled at him to stop. Every person that has had this issue has solved it simply by not using the deco.
Warm start: Carb is just not adjusted right, because this is not a problem I've seen with any of the saws we've sold. I suspect that it's a little too lean on the LO side. Every one of these things come out of the box too lean on both the Lo and HI. When setting up a saw I open them both at least 1/4 turn before even trying to start it, then adjust from there.
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Thanks, I will try this tomorrow, if I don't get rained out.
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I will give you the same answer I did on the other site and Spike is 100% correct , donot use the decompressure , that will be 99.9% of your not starting problem, it lets to much compression off .
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Damn, so it will start sooner but pull harder, just what my elbow needs....I'll try it.
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they donot pull hard at all , my 346's pull over alot harder
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Funny I hear this because I never use a decomp on my saws except one....my 090Av, with that puppy it's foot in the rear handle , left hand on the top handle with thumb holding the decomp button down. :D
Smaller saws [even my 066 Mag has no decomp] I don't set the decomp on my 372 562 etc. start cold with fewer pulls with more compression.
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I have a 066 Mag that has no decompression valve or a place to put one. It is no problem to start.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jamesirl/P9110114.jpg)
I have four 372's but they are the Schnuerle ported old style. I sometimes will start them with no decompression. Depends on what mood I'm in. But without using the decompression, I usually start them on the ground. I'm not the man that I used to be.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jamesirl/xpg372001-1.jpg)
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Nice looking pictures, you must have a good lens on your camera. I have to upgrade mine some day.
Yes I'm not 32 yrs old anymore either and now I feel my limitations too. :D
Looking at your picture of your 372 that reminds me that I should send my 272 off to Bertrand Hotsaw for a good work over, I hear he has had good success modding the 272. Mine is still barely broke in, the little it has cut it only cut hardwood to keep it clean.
I found this '93 saw a few years back with no hours on it, clean as a whistle.
Was Schnuerle a saw modder or just a porting technique back in the day?
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Schnuerle is the style of porting using a flat top piston with the transfer ports blowing from the side towards the opposite side of the combustion chamber from the exhaust port.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schnuerle_porting
The 066 is a Brent Combs concoction and the 372 is a BB ported by Snoopy
The camera used for the Stihl 066 picture is a Olympus E20N SLR digital. Cut4fun took the 372 picture with his camera
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Thanks for the good info 8)
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The starting without the decomp button worked amazingly well, thanks for the tip.
The saw runs with the L fully screwed shut, CCW, that aint right, is it?
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????
I thought you had removed the limiters?
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The saw runs with the L fully screwed shut, CCW, that aint right, is it?
Cory I think you must mean clockwise not counter clockwise [or anti clockwise]. The screws can be shut only clockwise in turning the screwdriver.
The 372 with the adjustment limiters on the L or H speed screws can't be closed off tightly, the restrictors prevent that. So it will run when you think you closed them tight.
I disabled my needle restrictors by cutting the white plastic tabs off with a Xacto knife, very easy to do, just pull off the airfilter and cut away.
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The saw runs with the L fully screwed shut, CCW, that aint right, is it?
Cory I think you must mean clockwise not counter clockwise [or anti clockwise]. The screws can be shut only clockwise in turning the screwdriver.
The 372 with the adjustment limiters on the L or H speed screws can't be closed off tightly, the restrictors prevent that. So it will run when you think you closed them tight.
I disabled my needle restrictors by cutting the white plastic tabs off with a Xacto knife, very easy to do, just pull off the airfilter and cut away.
His new 372's have different limiters then the old 372's we are used to. There is a pic of new 372 carb IPL I posted in this thread.
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They really don't have limiters at all; they take the special adjustment tool.
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Thanks guys, I guess my 2006 372 doesn't qualify. :D
But just to get this straight even with these new style H & L screws they still can't be shut off tight ,right?
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The carb limiters on the new 372XT's has a spring loaded limiter ring around the H&L screws.
You can just push the limiter ring in with a scribe or little screw driver and then turn the needle valve all you want to with a regular screw driver. You can turn the needle past the stop and have a new range of adjustment.
You don't need the combination tool necessarily.
But the two tool deal is hard to accomplish as the chainsaw comes from the factory. It is very easy to do with the needle boot and top cover off the saw or with the carb removed.
It would be almost impossible to adjust the needles with the chainsaw running with two screw drivers whereas with the special tool it can be done with the saw running without removing anything from the chainsaw.
The limiters can be completely removed if you screw the needles out or you can cut the tabs from them and re-install
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I'll see if I can do some adjustment with the info you provided here, Mr 660magnum, thanks.
Holmen, it is indeed ccw/counterclockwise, they are maxed out turning ccw and the saw still idles and runs. I'd like to make it richer.
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It is much easier to fiddle with the needles with the magic socket screw driver but the frugal person can do it with existing tools about the shop.
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Where does one obtain the magic socket screw driver??
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I think it is this one but it is $18.49
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SPLINED-Carburetor-Adjust-Service-TOOL-SCREWDRIVER-530035560-OEM-Part-/271073110890?pt=US_Outdoor_Power_Equipment&hash=item3f1d376b6a
I just took the tabs off the ends of the rings on my needle valves
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Cory its real easy to reset the limiter , I just use 2 of the screwdrivers you use to set the jets with , push the outside ring in with 1 screwdriver and turn the jet with the other , its pretty easy
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That's what I did. I just pushed the ring in with one screw driver and screwed the needle out with the other screw driver and then removed the ring.
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I leave the ring in there , just set the carb up to where it needs to be and go
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I really appreciate the input from all you experts, I will try to deal with the ring soon as I can give it a try.
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Just looking for info on adjusting and defeating these new carbs limiters. Thinking it was in this thread.
Found this to be neat. Guy will be driving I guess about hour 1 way.
Guy I dont even know contacts me and ask can you tune my new ported 365XT. If so how much. I told him FREE no charge.
He then ask how about my wife make you some type of cookies.
I stated cookies and beer while talking and tuning would be fine. So I gave him my 3 beer list.
Now to get a free warmer weekend.
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That ring is soft and difficult to hold and remove the tab from it. Anything holding across the round part will collapse the ring.
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Is it the saw maker or the epa who try and make it a federal offense to adjust your carb mixture screws? I can't believe they are fricking worried about chainsaws emissions. I burn maybe 5 gallons of gas a year in my saws. My pick up truck burns 5 gallons of gas driving to work and back in one day.
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EPA driven!!
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A bunch of kids at the EPA trying to get a feather in their hat.
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I havent paid attention. Do these new x-torq 365 372 saws have a rev limited coil? If so any idea at what, give or take limit.
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They have a limited -blue' coil but have no idea at what rev limit.
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13.3k
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teşekkür ederim
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OK, C4F what is with the Turkish?
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OK, C4F what is with the Turkish?
I lived there 85-86 in the middle of the desert at a secret radar site 110 miles from USSR border.
Video http://chainsawrepair.createaforum.com/rec-room/diyarbakir-air-station-video/msg20491/#msg20491
The base was decommissioned since I have been out. So pics and info are floating about.
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Kevin that video was great! I think it was you narrating but did you also put it all together?
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That guy is closer to Kevin's dad's age
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Any one used a 385/390 intake boot to mount a 372xp cylinder to a Xtorq saw?
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Any one used a 385/390 intake boot to mount a 372xp cylinder to a Xtorq saw?
I have used the 385/90 intake boot to put the XT Walbro RWJ-4 (RWJ-4 now made by Tillotson called now RWJ-4-1) carb on a non XT saw. The boot looks to be too big but it pulls up tight and seals well. I think Spike60 had a post that said you could put an XP jug on an XT bottom end but the opposite was not possible because of some difference in the deck height of the case. I will try to find that thread for you.
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Kevin that video was great! I think it was you narrating but did you also put it all together?
Just seen this, sorry. Not me just found video on youtube.
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I have used the 385/90 intake boot to put the XT Walbro RWJ-4 (RWJ-4 now made by Tillotson called now RWJ-4-1) carb on a non XT saw. The boot looks to be too big but it pulls up tight and seals well. I think Spike60 had a post that said you could put an XP jug on an XT bottom end but the opposite was not possible because of some difference in the deck height of the case. I will try to find that thread for you.
Thanks, I found Spike60 info in the 372cases thread.
So did you use the 372 Clamp or the 385 Clamp?
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IIRC, I used the 372 clamp, the reason was the 385 would not tighten far enough.
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IIRC, I used the 372 clamp, the reason was the 385 would not tighten far enough.
Thanks, may order up some parts the next time I am at the dealers.
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Try this place www.partstree.com Are you going to use the XT carb? If you are not you don't need the carb boot, clamp, choke rod or filter holder just use the XP stuff. The XT carb has offset mounting holes like a Tillotson the XP carb has them in a flat plane. Tell us what you plan on doing, perhaps we could be of more help.
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Looking at mounting the XP PC to a Xtorq case.
Using the XT carb and filter.
Thinking all I should need is the PC, Intake boot, and clamp for the swap.
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I believe you are correct, you will also need the XT filter horn and you will need to remove the divider from the filter horn.
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I cut a piece of 1/4 inch aluminum tubing about 4 inches long and insert a small screwdriver down through it to adjust the carb on my new XT. Mash the spring down with the tube then adjust. Mine surged while idling when new. 3/4 turn on the L side cured that. I turned the H side about 1 turn out. They are right, don't use the decomp. Even then you still miss the pop sometimes. Never pull over 4 times with choke on and you be alright. I was disappointed when I first got it. It would not outcut my old 181se. It will now. It takes awhile for it to break in. I am very pleased with it now.
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Tree trimmers came around my house last summer and the ground saw was a 372XT. I thought they were going to wear out the pull cord jerking on that thing trying to start it. The kid would flood it every time.
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Looking at mounting the XP PC to a Xtorq case.
Using the XT carb and filter.
Thinking all I should need is the PC, Intake boot, and clamp for the swap.
So finally got around to this.
Thank you KilliansRedLeo for the help on what parts.
Parts needed 372XP P/C.
385 xp intake boot
385 throttle cable/carb clamp and insert washer.
372xp intake band clamp.
Used a wood chisel to remove the air filter horn divider.
Reassembled and adjusted the carb.
Now to get it in some wood and see the results. :)
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So I have a few gallons of mix through this xtorq to xp now.
Runs good and I am happy with the upgrade.
It can be fickle to adjust the carb, I think that comes from running this large a bore carb to cc's.
Once adjusted the throttle response is fine. No bog spots across the throttle range.
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Any issues mounting to the XT case?
Adam
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Everything bolted right up.
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That's cool!
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Everything XT swaps to XP and XP to XT.
Shep
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bump for the new 372 365 xt saws flooding info
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372XT
From watching the ground man of a tree service, he pushed the compression release, Pulled the choke on, and started pulling . . .
It never hit a lick. (by then it was flooded)
So the supervisor got over there and pulled until he was worn out. They put the saw back in the bin on the truck.
The next day I was across the street, the supervisor started it (may have been a different saw?) right up, like on the third pull, and finished the job.
I don't own a XT but from reading, it seems your chances are better if you don't use the compression release.
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+1 No comp release better off to plug it. I plugged all 5 365XT of mine and my 562. You can miss the pop very very easy.
Shep
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I just got done tuning a guys jred 2172. It had starting issues. Takes many pulls to start it cold (8 or 9 pulls). And he said if you shut it down hot you have to wait till the saw cools down to restart. So taking spikes advice I richened the low jet. The screw was on the limiter but I have the tool to fix that. I opened it up about a quarter turn. The saw started in 3 pulls cold. I cut a load of wood with it this morning and shut it down multiple times hot. It started up with 1 pull every time.
The guy took it to the dealer twice before he gave it to me. All the dealer did was he plugged off the decomp but that didn't fix the starting issues.
Thanks for the info here!
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Good to hear the info working out.
Reminds me I have a OE 372 to go check out. :-X :-[
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So I have a few gallons of mix through this xtorq to xp now.
Runs good and I am happy with the upgrade.
It can be fickle to adjust the carb, I think that comes from running this large a bore carb to cc's.
Once adjusted the throttle response is fine. No bog spots across the throttle range.
A little update after another couple months running this XT to XP conversion.
Ran good all winter. Had some warmer weather last week and it all of a sudden it went lean at idle during a removal.
I suspected a air leak so just shut it off and grabbed another saw to finish.
On tear down I found the muffler lose and the manifold leaking at both the carb junction and cylinder. Verified by starter fluid while running.
New muffler gasket
I coated both ends of the manifold with high heat RTV. Had the cylinder off so I could wipe the inside clean of any squeeze though of RTV.
Let dry over night and tuned the next day.
If I was building another I would seal the manifold connections right from the start. The 385 boot has to squeeze down quite a bit on the cylinder, the 372xp cylinder clamp bottoms out. While the boot didn't move, I wondered if it was really sealed well on the first assembly.
So just a FYI if anyone else decides to do this upgrade/change.
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A little update after another couple months running this XT to XP conversion.
Ran good all winter. Had some warmer weather last week and it all of a sudden it went lean at idle during a removal.
I suspected a air leak so just shut it off and grabbed another saw to finish.
On tear down I found the muffler lose and the manifold leaking at both the carb junction and cylinder. Verified by starter fluid while running.
New muffler gasket
I coated both ends of the manifold with high heat RTV. Had the cylinder off so I could wipe the inside clean of any squeeze though of RTV.
Let dry over night and tuned the next day.
If I was building another I would seal the manifold connections right from the start. The 385 boot has to squeeze down quite a bit on the cylinder, the 372xp cylinder clamp bottoms out. While the boot didn't move, I wondered if it was really sealed well on the first assembly.
So just a FYI if anyone else decides to do this upgrade/change.
A lot of people use the original 372 boot and just turn it to meet up with the bolt pattern of the carb to avoid this issue.