Chainsaw Repair
Husqvarna - Stihl - Poulan - Jonsered - Dolmar chainsaws and more => McCulloch => Topic started by: qwerty12 on April 07, 2013, 11:43:08 am
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Hello to All. I have an old McC saw and its in 1000 peaces ;D
Here are few pics:
(http://s16.postimg.org/k9efvbsy9/IMG_0134.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/k9efvbsy9/)
(http://s16.postimg.org/ik5cn9d8x/IMG_0135.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ik5cn9d8x/)
(http://s16.postimg.org/ichpqr2a9/IMG_0136.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ichpqr2a9/)
Do you folks know what model it is?
Anny manual or parts list for that saw?
If not its not the problem I will figure somehow to make it working again. My biggest problem was(before I dissambled it) was no lubrication of chain at oll.
It using this kind of oil pump:
(http://s16.postimg.org/rgg4r73v5/IMG_0137.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/rgg4r73v5/)
and no matter how I put it inside and whathewer I do it wont lubricate chain. Does anny of you folks know how to make this oil pump working.
How much this metal tube(red arrow) should be indise the pump?
(http://s16.postimg.org/55s9r86kx/IMG_0139.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/55s9r86kx/)
Please help
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Well...I assambled the chainsaw today. Oil pump to. Cleaned ewerything to perfection...still got no oil on the chain bar and chain.
Something strange happens all the time. On the oil cap side,bellow the exhaust, there is a small bleed hole wich serves as air inlet hole as oil is getting used and dissapears. On that werry hole when I press full trottle oil is comming out it bublles if oil tank is full... Buth on the chain side a hole which should be draining oil hotthing happens. No oil.
Checked all holes, cleaned them. Made new gaskets. Tryed ewerything. And no oil on chain. :(
Please help, i am getting disenchanted totally
EDIT:
Here are few oil pump pictures beffore cleaning:
(http://s1.postimg.org/55as5nquj/IMG_0018.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/55as5nquj/)
(http://s1.postimg.org/r4ls6lx2j/IMG_0019.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/r4ls6lx2j/)
(http://s1.postimg.org/zeu9sl5ez/IMG_0021.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/zeu9sl5ez/)
(http://s1.postimg.org/bci1bge5n/IMG_0023.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/bci1bge5n/)
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take the pump off and soak it in some kerosene for a few days. the check valves are gummed up. and you can't take them out for service.
another thing to try is in a container big enough, submerse the pump housing with the piston/spring instaled and tap the piston in/out very fast and firm. unscrew the limiting screw to add some more stroke to the piston. gawd sounds dirtay :D
you'll notice when the little check valves come loose. lift it out of the kerosene (or diesel) and give the piston a few pumps. you should see the level in the intake port go down. and the output port go up. keep doing this for a while, then switch over to a light oil. should clear the oiler out so it works again.
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I cleaned it today perfectly and still no oil :(
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the little check valves in the pump housing are still stuck. if you're seeing 'pressure', or bubling oil coming out of the tank vent, it's because the checkvalves are stuck. i'm talking about the small spring and ball type in the pump housing that you can't get at as they are permenantly assembled. you need to get them unstuck. try as i posted using the red piston/spring. you need to be pretty vigorus moving that piston in/out until they free up. you don't have the pump cleaned perfectly until it pumps oil. after that it'll take about a minute or 2 until you get bar oil to the bar.
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Please sorry buth my english is bad...so did not quite understood you
the only walve that my pupm has is a small metal ball inside a metal tube that I have marked here:
(http://s21.postimg.org/g9w1rxaoj/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/g9w1rxaoj/)
I cleaned that to. Disabled pump...blowed with air that metal tube. cleaned the ball and spring. and returned it back to the saw. still no oil
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thats not it. there is 2 internal checkvalves built into the body of the pump housing.
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I don't know if I helped of not? This is in
Slovenian
so majhne preverite ventili na ohišju črpalke, so še vedno zaljubljen. če ste videli "pritisk", ali bubling olje prihaja iz rezervoarja vent, je to zato, ker so obtičali v checkvalves. Govorim o malih črkah spomladi in žogo v ohišju črpalke, da ne morete priti v kolikor so permenantly sestavljeno. jih morate dobiti odlijepio. poskusite kot sem objavil z rdečo bat / pomlad. morate biti lepa vigorus gibljivi, da je bat in / out, dokler ne sprostite. nimate črpalka očiščena odlično, dokler se ne črpa olje. Po tem bo trajalo približno minuto ali 2, dokler ne prideš bar olja v bar.
Slovak
malí spätné ventily v telese čerpadla sú stále uväznení. ak ste videl "tlak", alebo bubling olej vychádzajúci z nádrže otvor, je to preto, že checkvalves sú prilepené. Hovorím o malé jarné a guľôčkového typu v telese čerpadla, ktoré nemôžete dostať na ako oni sú permenantly zmontované. musíte si ich rozlepený. sa snažil, ako som vyslaný pomocou červeného piestu / pružinu. musíte byť pekný vigorus pohybujúce sa, že piest in / out, kým sa uvoľniť. nemáte čerpadlo vyčistiť perfektne, kým čerpadla oleja. potom, čo to bude trvať o minútu alebo 2, kým sa nedostanete bar olej do baru.
Serbian
мале неповратних вентила у кућишту пумпе су увек заглављени. ако сте видели 'притисак', или бублинг уље излази из резервоара вентилацију, то је зато што су цхецквалвес заглављен. Ја говорим о малом пролећа и лопта типа у кућишту пумпе да не можете добити на што су перменантли монтирана. морате да их одлепио. покушајте што сам постављен користећи црвену клип / гибањ. треба да буду привлачне вигорус покретни тај клип ин / оут док не до ослободити. немате пумпа очишћена савршено док не пумпе уља. након тога ћу узети око минут или 2 док не добијете бар уље на траци.
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Serbian
то није то. постоји 2 унутрашња провера вентила уграђени у тело кућишта пумпе.
Slovak
že to nie je ono. je 2 vnútorné spätné ventily vstavané do tela skrine čerpadla.
Slovenian
to ni to. je 2 notranji kontrolni ventili vgrajeni v telo ohišja črpalke.
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@Magnum...how did you know I speak serbian ? ;D
@Budget... please can you use your paint and with arows show me on what valves do you mean?
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I know the general area where you live but not sure of your language
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:) i'm not that good with a comp yet.
there is still a checkvalve in the pump body. it is stuck and you can't get to it without destroying the pump body. you need to soak it for a couple of days, then work at it like i said. even worn out old pumps will still pump oil. the only reason these type do not pump, is one or both of the checkvalves is stuck closed or open. the way you were describing about the 'bubbles' coming out of the tanks vent pretty much tell me the 'input' side of the pump is stuck open.
mcculloch power mac 380.
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Serbian?
и даље постоји цхецквалве у телу пумпе. се заглавио се и не можете да дођете до њега, без уништавања пумпе тело. потребно је да га потопите неколико дана, а онда радите на томе као што сам рекао. чак дотрајале старе пумпе и даље ће пумпати нафту.Једини разлог ове врсте не пумпају, један или оба цхецквалвес је заглављен затворен или отворен.начин описивали о "мехурићима" долазе из отвора резервоара прилично реци 'улаз' страна пумпе заглавио отворен.
МЦЦУЛЛОЦХ снага мац 380.
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@Magnum thaknks for translation.
@brokenbudjet...I disabled thw whole pump and did not found other walve. I will try to soak the pump and see what it does...buth when pump is in my hands and when I moove pump piston up down it sucks oil and gets it on upper side. when i mount it on the saw it wont pump :-\
If annybody of you folks knows where that second walve is please just go to start programs accesories ms paint and draw a circle on one of my pump pictures so I can figure out where that damn walve is
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where did you have the adjuster screw set? could be it was in too far and not letting the piston move enough.
also, instead of the regular bar oil, try some 10/30 motor oil.
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одакле имате подешивач вијак скуп? могло би се било у сувише далеко и не допуштајући клип креће довољно.
Такође, уместо редовног бар уљу, пробајте неке 10/30 моторно уље.
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@Broken... adjusting screew is almost all turned off so the piston can moove as longer path is possible
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well if you get oil when trying the pump off the saw, and everything looks fine with the pump, the only other place to look is the port that feeds the pump from the crankcase. they do become plugged with crud. you should feel pressure/vac from it when spinning the engine over. make sure the gasket is in right.
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checked that to. WHen pump was off i put some oil in that hole and pouled start calble and oil went on my face
donw know what else to check its driving me crazy
is there any way to make some homemade grunf oiling system. to attach some can on the top of the saw and to let oil naturally go to the chain?
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when you instal the oiler, are you sure the rubber gasket is fully seated? it could be it's getting old and not sealing.
this one: http://postimg.org/image/zeu9sl5ez/
i bet whats happening is the pump is sucking air from the top of the tank, because that gasket would sort of be above the oil level and not feeding the pump. then it just pumping a small amount of oil with a whole lot of air, not making it out to the bar but blowing back into the tank.
that rubber gasket should be a tight fit between the pump housing and the tank top.
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Trhe rubber seams fine to me it has no cracks etc
the problem is I live in small town and at local saw shops there are not anny McC part aviable :-\ eslwhere I would buy whole new pump this one is giving me headaches
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I noticed one strange thing today.
Carb was hard to adjust...saw smokes much. when turned carb screws clockwise saw would strive and die. so i made it H and L for biggest rpm and stil god smoke.
Afther that i pour out chain oil and remowed oil pump. turned saw on and pressed trottle. no smoke and fine rews.
that means that oil pump instead of giwing oil on chain is returning oil to the crankcase so the saw consumes it. gowd damn it i have a 4 stroke chainsaw lubricates from oil pump oil ;D
what could that mean ???
@budget...rubber gasket seams ok to me no cracks
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Check valve not working in pump
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660, i thought that as well, but he said he 'bench' tested it and it worked.
querty, the rubber may seem ok, but over time it looses its elasticity (rubberyness ;), and won't squish enough to seal. and i'm pretty sure that's the problem as to why it won't oil. with the lower cover gasket and the upper rubber one squished into their shape and thickness you are not getting the clamping force to stop the leak. this is also why it is smoking badly as the oil is getting past the bottom gasket and into the engine through the impuls port.
way back when i was working at bentons farm equipment, we sold quite a few of those little saws (in titan colors- yours is probably a pm380) and when ever you touched the oiler on them, they recieved a new upper rubber grommet and cover gasket. no questions asked.
make a new thicker gasket for the bottom cover and and flip the grommet over to see what happens.
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here is a little video....
http://youtu.be/uki-IxWaKk4
in diesel can its not pumping fluids
I am beccoming totaly mad
at the end i will use this repair tool
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PystUCstQ28
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I' m not certain exactly what model that thing is .I'd about think with a vertical cylinder it would be one of the Italian made Titans .I thought they all had crankshaft driven pumps ,not impulse piston .
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dont know what model it is has no letters on the chainsaw at all only on the chainbar it saids mcculloch
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like i said al, it's a pm380 on up tp a titan 430.
he needs a new one of these:
http://oldmowerparts.com/McCulloch-235159-rubber-GASKET-OIL-PUMP-Power-Mac-380-430-Eager-Beaver-23-NOS-Part-New-OEM-Chain-S-P2375497.aspx
look at his grommet and then the one in the link. notice how the grommet is shaped? it's squished beyond use.
the oil pump is basicly sandwiched between the ports in the top of the oil tank and the bottom cover. and it needs to be a tight fit. the rubber grommet and gasket is squished flat and the fit isn't tight enough. so the pulse from the crankcase is bleading off into the oil tank, while the oil is being sucked into the crankcase.
if he'd take a small amunt of time and do this right, he'd have a good little saw to run.
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MCCULLOCH PM 380 ON UP TO TITAN 440.
http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.nsf/ed1d619968136da688256af40002b8f7/16d9fed8dd1b2ad488256c2f001b6b7a?OpenDocument
http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.nsf/ed1d619968136da688256af40002b8f7/7cda4efda9b4529388256c2f001bcf1e?OpenDocument
i guess the american market went up to the 440.
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I will make new gasket tomorow that is thiner than original so the pump is pushed harder to the crankcase maybe it wont leak
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don't give up on it. they are very good little saws and worth while keeping around. for a little reed engine, they turn some good revs and make some nice torque for their size. these saws were built with top quality parts and were way ahead of what was out at the time. keep an eye out for an oiler, order one of those grommets in the link i provided and keep at it.
new old stock oilers come up on ebay often enough, so keep an eye out there aswell.
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Yes. exept this freaking oiling problem the saw i realy nice thing. Here in my place people most use stihl and husquvarna.
me muself to have a huski and regardles of the fact that huski is far more popular here around these two cant compare.
huski crankcase is plastic MaC crankcase is aluminium. metal can last forewer. otherside on the huski screew bolts go off like hell
kuski is piston intake macc reed walve which is much better. smaller fuel consumption...no fuel spitting outside etc
huski has ball bearing on the crankshaft macc has needle bearing and those can take much more force
macc has much more advanced transfer and exhaust ports timing, bigger compresion ratio.
and lot of other things macc has beter than huski (talking abouth old models low price saws non exprert dont hawe those)
only smal thing that better on huski is spring shock absorber. macc has rubber nuts. maybe I have tigtened mine too much buth when cutting it vibrates like hell.
Buth all asumed mac is much better than same old age huski.
the only thing that does not any good is that damn oiler thats driving me insane :'( :'( :'(
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When setting the carb on this saw can anyone tell me on which rpm max to go on full trottle when not cutting? Is 10 000rpm ok or to much?
Or should I just press full trotle and turn H screew until I got biggest rpm and than slightly turn it to the anticlockvise?
Is there anny good online manual how to set chainsaw carb correctly?
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"just press full throttle and turn H screew until I got biggest rpm and than slightly turn it to the anticlockwise?"
I like to have them four stroking at full throttle without cutting and running free - Then when in the wood they two stroke.
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do you mean that when the saw is little richer on non cating full trottle whan cating it wil be little leaner?
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tune it until wide open to get a burble. the burble should go away when you start cutting. remember, the reed saws have a bit of a different sound than a piston port engine.
if i remember right, 11500-12000 was a good spot, then if you want, you can fine tune it to the color of the plug.
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I wont it to tune a little bit les than that 12000 does not metter if it cuts slower the engine will last more if mixture is slight richer than ideal.
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tried with thinner gasket tried with gasket 999 grey mas...nothing works. damn oiler
assamgled saw today totally, and was cutting some trees today ;D
made a wide can tut it on place near trees and fill the can with oil. diped a tip of blade inside press trottle slightly till all chain is drauning in oil. and made cutting. and oiling afther every limb. Worket that way il finished with trees, spent 2 reservoirs of fuel.
Tomorow I will try to add a botle of oil on the side of saw and connect the botle with crankcase hole that drives to the chain. oil should with natural decline go to the chain. if that works will cut. and if not works wil continue to cut with a can of oil nex to me and afthe each cut dip the blade and oil it manualy.
Cant fight with that oil pump annymore took me 7 days of time and did not repaired it.
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now that you've stopped the oil from going into the engine you now need to get that 'other' checkvalve working.
you can take a can of lubricated carb cleaner with the spray tube and blow it into the inlet side of the oiler. like i said, there is another checkvalve. and you can't get to it so you might as well not bother trying to pry anything apart. you can't get to the inlet checkvalve without destroying the oiler.
by 'thinner' gasket, do you mean thicker gasket? a thicker gasket was what i was telling you to use.
you may have a no oil issue now if the sealant you used is blocking any ports.
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Here a ipl of your type pump
http://ersatzteil-zeichnungen.wmv-dresden.de/documents/Mc%20Culloch/PM%20364,%20PM%20374,%201993-01,%20serial_03_motorsaege%20McCulloch%20-%20Oelpumpe%20von%20unten.pdf
What i do in your case is step by step testing the valve's ( with a fuel -line on your mouth ) and put it in sunflower-oil to see it it leeks ;)
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looking at another thread on another site, i think you're missing a ball and spring. it would be the "other" check valve.
notice the "large" spring. right beside it, notice the ball. under that ball is a spring. seems yours is missing.
(http://i42.tinypic.com/1rx4t2.jpg)
edit: thought i put this pic in :)
seems the little ball is missing :( not where the arrow is pointing.
(http://i40.tinypic.com/351wdg5.jpg)
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1st time I have looked at this thread. Nice work guys and Great translation work 660mag..............................................
Way to go the extra mile. (http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq110/Speedo_Ghost/Smiley/thumbsupup.gif) (http://media.photobucket.com/user/Speedo_Ghost/media/Smiley/thumbsupup.gif.html)
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i just hope he can find a suitable ball and spring to replace the missing parts. these little macs are actually pretty good runners.
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Sorry I couldn't add anything for the simple fact I've never even seen that model nor that type of pump .
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it's basicly the same pump, but the italians decided to help mcculloch's design along with a more reliable check valve design. the last time i was into one of these was back in the mid '90's. some of the info has fallen out of my head, but from what i remember, they were a good unit. the only problems were loose screws causing the cloud of death or a no oil to the bar situation. or like the saw the oiler picture is from, somebody drops them hard and they crack the oiler mounting pad. it takes luck for that to happen. need to hit it just right.
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Well that check valve business it's a known fact that a lot of the 10 series saws had slight failures as they aged . Danged things would suck bar oil back into the crankcase and smoked .Usually not a problem after they had ran a while .In extreme situations though they could flood the cylinder and drown the plug .
If not that bad extended usage on a bottom exhaust 10 series with the screens and baffles in place could lead to pyralized oil carboning up the exhaust port which chewed the piston to pieces given enough time .Good oilers if not for that problem .
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i've had my share of 10-10's, 700's, 850's etc. with bad pumps. i'm a guy that has no problem drop starting an 088 without the decomp, but when one of those 10 series had any type of oil in them they just wouldn't budge :) of course, it was always when you never expected it so you'd just grab on that pull handle to give her a twist only to find out in a spit second how painful it can be when that cord don't want to come out. can't tell you how many times i've either broken the cord, handle or pulled that handle out of my hand over extending a couple few fingers in the process. damn near make me want to cry like a baby. and them fingers are frikin sore for the rest of the day and week.
good thing today most saws have extrenal pumps and can't really ingest chain oil. i don't think the starters would be up for the abuse.
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I had an SP-81 close the decomp prematurely on a drop once and climbed the cord .Scared me to death and that's the last time I ever tried that . It that SOB would have started it could have cut my arm off . :o
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naw she just wanted to cuddle :) and give you love nips ;D
had an old sp-81 that would break it's own pull cord quite often when you shut it down. tried to hold the cord out a few inches once (only once) to see if it helped. i figure she would just love to keep running in reverse if there wasn't anything there to stop it from happening. that saw was a nice easy starter, loads of go and a nice smooth idler. never looked at the points to see what was up, ran too good and didn't have it long enough. got sold on me by mistake when i brought it in to work one day to show john (owner of bentons farm equipment), he wasn't there that day and i was helping the neighbor with some haying, long story short, pete, the other mechanic (very close to retirement at the time and long since dead now, gawd rest his awesome soul),didn't know it was mine as i didn't have a tag on it saying so. and it was in the tree with other saws for sale, sold it to somebody that came in looking for such a saw for some dirty clean up, no price, but that's ok. we'll sell it to you for the same price as the similar saw above and call it good. thank you have a nice day :)
i wasn't mad, honest mistake totally brought on by my own dummass. i did make an extra 40bux ;D and never ever seen it again.
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There is a very fine line on the points type 10 series saws .If you get just the right amount of advance they run like a scalded ape .Too much they try to break your wrist .
They don't have a very large starter drum .The little ones like the 10-10 aren't bad but 70 cc and larger just the compression alone can hurt you .
On the oilers though I've had some leakers none really were that bad on this style of pump .Now the diaphragm type impulse pumps on the later PM 610-650 will cause lots of problems .Those will hyraulically lock up a cylinder to the point you can't pull them over . You have to blow the oil out to even get them to roll over .
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I know this is an old thread, but I thought I would share my experience incase it helps anyone.
I had a problem with my oil pump, same as above. After stripping it, I figured it was missing a ball bearing to act as a valve. The oil enters the pump through the gauze. The manual pump draws it on the return stroke, then should push it up the hole that the pic above has a bearing in. I left that clear and I popped a 3.5mm ss steel bearing in the larger hole this side of the gauze.Whilst I was at it, I replaced the smaller ball at the top of the piston valve with a neww ss 2.5mm. Now works as good as new!!
The model is a Mac 4000. 16" bar. Can't fing any info on it anywhere!
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Well...thanks for replay...its been ages and i stil hawe not managed to fix that damn thing.
One thing is not clear to me...how oil comes down in pump when that 3.5mm bal is there?
Under the bal is a gasket and under gasket is a metal plate...so ball has not lot of space to move and make free way for oil...
anyway i found one 3mm ball in house and i will try it as soon is possible.
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Last hope for that saw, befor the extruder come's ::)
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I still have not managed enought time to try that thing with that ball....buth i will try it as soon I catch the time...
if it will worke its great
if not...panda be sadd
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6vPRaIrvqU
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yeah that looks like the powermac 380 or the promas440 av the titan models use the same engine but different oil pumps. also there is an eager beaver 2.3 model like that you can usually find for sale on ebay.
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thats a powermac 380 a new oil pump is like 25bucks on ebay, that same oil pump is used on an electric model as well. The engine is the same top end as a titan 40