Chainsaw Repair
Husqvarna - Stihl - Poulan - Jonsered - Dolmar chainsaws and more => Stihl => Topic started by: gunrac on February 22, 2014, 10:20:16 am
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Stopped at the local pawn shop yesterday. They had a pretty clean 290. I fired it up in 4 pulls......Carb. seemed to be adjusted nice. Quick response an a 4 stroke tone when opened up. He had 250.00 on it, got him down to 225. w/little effort. Can anyone tell me anything about em'? I've always been pretty much a husky guy. Just lookin to pick up a limber,brush saw.
I had a low hr. 250 for a short time. It had some carb. issues, once that was cured it was a good runner, for a little saw.
Is the 290 a discontinued saw?
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They still list them under farm and ranch saws .Very popular model ,56.5 cc,3.8 HP .For a firewooder they do okay .For a ground saw for a tree triming outfit not so good .Lucky to make it a year .Those guys are tough on them .More like medevil truth be known .
That price would be in line with what a clean relatively low usage MS 290 would fetch in these parts .
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Since you know Huskys I would compare the Stihl 290 to a Husqvarna 455 Rancher. Both are clamshell engines.
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290 is replaced with 291 now. $225 would have to be a really clean working 100% one IMO.
30 min muffler mod with carb retune can get you a 20%-23% quicker cuts, 23 most I seen and quit checking since.
limber brush saw, it weighs 13lbs plus PHO.
I could set you up with a poulan 3500 60cc pro grade build magnesium crankcase and lighter PHO for less money for more cc. Sun faded covers and scratches on covers from use. Top end looks like new. New lines etc.
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We have one on the shelf at work, it gets very little use. I will typically sign out the MS390 and a top handle saw for the day.
When I do have to sign out the MS290, I typically have to give it plenty of warm up time and then fight to keep it running.
(We are not allowed to work on them....maintenance personnel get upset when you try to do their jobs for them) So I just don't tell them about what I fix ;) The MS290 w/18" .325/.50 semi-chisel set-up does cut well, but I would consider it a 'hand full' for limb trimming all day!
Now, if the truth be known...these saws do not get treated awfully well. Most guys that are cutting on the crews are just waiting to get back into JD tractors and start the mowing season. So if they can handle the beatings, then the can't be all that bad.
As far as price.....pawn shops aren't what I would consider in the top ten places to get stuff from. $225 seems pretty high for a saw you know very little about the history(in could have been sitting in a 55gal barrel of water for a month). Seen a few on C-list for $200 that look minty(just from photos).
Scott (did you get it?) B
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Since you know Huskys I would compare the Stihl 290 to a Husqvarna 455 Rancher. Both are clamshell engines.
YES, I gotcha now.....didn't realize it was the clamshell, you all refer to.......thx
I think I'll just hold out till the funds come a little better. I really need to pick up something that will handle a 24" bar w/o being under powered.
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Since you know Huskys I would compare the Stihl 290 to a Husqvarna 455 Rancher. Both are clamshell engines.
YES, I gotcha now.....didn't realize it was the clamshell, you all refer to.......thx
I think I'll just hold out till the funds come a little better. I really need to pick up something that will handle a 24" bar w/o being under powered.
Look for something of a minimum of 60cc or bigger for a 24" bar.
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Since you know Huskys I would compare the Stihl 290 to a Husqvarna 455 Rancher. Both are clamshell engines.
YES, I gotcha now.....didn't realize it was the clamshell, you all refer to.......thx
I think I'll just hold out till the funds come a little better. I really need to pick up something that will handle a 24" bar w/o being under powered.
Look for something of a minimum of 60cc or bigger for a 24" bar.
I run a buddy's husky 460 w/a 24". I had it sharp, had to hold it back ......It was underpowered, IMO.......I'll be wanting to get near or into the 70cc class.
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I totally agree with you. Sometimes it is just a matter of expense.
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In my experience with the MS 290, it best suited for a 16 or 18 inch bar. It is or rather was Stihl's best selling saw.
Check the 290 and the older 029's out on eBay. They bring a nice price!
The 290's weakness as well as the MS 310 and MS 390 or rather the whole family of these popular series of Stihl saws are the main bearings. They have "plastic" races!
I rebuilt another 290 this afternoon. Bought it on eBay. Scored cylinder and piston. Very clean and low hour saw but the previous owner must have run it with the chain too tight. The crank bearing on the clutch side was damaged enough causing the crank seal to leak....burned up the cylinder and piston.
Replaced the cylinder and piston and the crank bearings/seals with after market parts offered on eBay. Note...the after market bearings have steel races! Go figure???
The saw now runs fine.....I hope to turn a profit on this saw but to do so....my time would have to be worth Chinese wages but Stihl saws are my hobby! ;D
Dave
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Well I learned something, I did not know that about the Bearings having plastic races.
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I never seen a plastic race in a ball bearing but have seen a lot of ball bearings with plastic cages. I'd rather have the plastic cage.
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I never seen a plastic race in a ball bearing but have seen a lot of ball bearings with plastic cages. I'd rather have the plastic cage.
Yes that would make more sense for it to have a plastic cage not a race. Don't some of the huskys suffer from the same thing.
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OOOPS! Sorry!!!! My terminology was wrong. Meant to say plastic cages rather than races. Either way....plastic or whatever that material Stihl has used in the manufacturer of their (made in India bearings) has no place in a bearing....my opinion. Then again....running a chain too tight is lack of good common sence of the orginal owners part. In this case....my gain! ;D
Dave
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A ball bearing run at very high speed is going to loose the cage before anything else.
In a two stroke, whatever comes off the bearing goes up through the engine. The Melmide in theory doesn't hurt anything. But I put new rings in after loosing a plastic cage.
When you start to loose the cage, you will never know it unless a piece of the metal cage start tearing up the piston.
With the plastic cages, the saw may run OK for a while but will suddenly stop when all the balls get on one side and the crank hits the crankcase.
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If I had my choice it would be metal all the way.
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The MS290 Farmboss I worked on, or rather rebuilt today today had its clutch side crank bearing worn to the point you could hear the "roughness" for lack of a better term when just pulling the starter "rope" however....all of the ball bearings were still within the "plastic" cage. The "slop" of the worn cage of the crank shaft bearing caused the seal to leak..... causing a "lean" condition ...end result...scored piston and cylinder.
Sure, the owner of the saw was probably at fault at some point of operation of the saw causing this falure but I wonder if the crank shaft bearing cage had been made of "steel" rather than the plastic fiber, if the saw would have served the user better or better stated....longer life of the saw in GENERAL even under proper use? In my opinion.....look....I am a number "1" fan of Stihl products...especially their saws but their "quality" is lacking in the use of plastic cages in the crankshaft bearings on the 029, MS 290, MS 310 etc. saws.
You tube has several videos on Stihl's plastic crank shaft cage failures of the above named models...not just my findings.
Dave
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The MS290 Farmboss I worked on, or rather rebuilt today today had its clutch side crank bearing worn to the point you could hear the "roughness" for lack of a better term when just pulling the starter "rope" however....all of the ball bearings were still within the "plastic" cage. The "slop" of the worn cage of the crank shaft bearing caused the seal to leak..... causing a "lean" condition ...end result...scored piston and cylinder.
Sure, the owner of the saw was probably at fault at some point of operation of the saw causing this falure but I wonder if the crank shaft bearing cage had been made of "steel" rather than the plastic fiber, if the saw would have served the user better or better stated....longer life of the saw in GENERAL even under proper use? In my opinion.....look....I am a number "1" fan of Stihl products...especially their saws but their "quality" is lacking in the use of plastic cages in the crankshaft bearings on the 029, MS 290, MS 310 etc. saws.
You tube has several videos on Stihl's plastic crank shaft cage failures of the above named models...not just my findings.
Dave
No one is doubting your findings, just some pros and cons being offered which is good discussion and informational.
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The new 365 XT and 372xp XT have plastic cages now I am told.
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I've read this before and have no reason to doubt it. The crankshaft bearings in the 1127 series of saws (290/310/390) are the exact same crankshaft bearings Stihl uses in its really really big and powerful saws, like the 075/070 and 090 series of saws. I may be mistaken,but I doubt the bearings are any cause for concern. The picture of the OEM Stihl bearing has "Germany" printed on it. Here's a great picture of an OEM "290" bearing captured ofF Ebay moments ago. Any chance the saw you worked on had AM parts on it instead of OEM?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-OEM-STIHL-Chainsaw-Crank-Shaft-Bearing-029-039-038-075-090G-MS-290-310-390-/350837041910?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51af846af6
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Nothing like that. Bearings say....Made in.....Got the old bearings in front of me now....Dug them out of the garbage.... Ha! Ha! Made in of all places...TURKEY.... on this rebuild with a part number of ORS 620JCJ.....HELL the numbers are poorly stamped too! Have seen India before....all of some sort of "plastic" or fiber cage on the "FARMBOSS" series saws of crank bearings?
Oh my goodness....Stihl....America's Favorite....that it may be??? BUT....
Stop and think about it..... Did Stihl save 2 cents on each bearing times.... 300,000 + in hopes that these would all hold up over their "limited" ONE year warranty or better yet....since January 2011.....TWO YEARS with the purchase of a six pack of their "ULTRA" 2 cycle mix....HEY! What did they make on the oil mix? Enough to cover the warranty claims on the failures within the ....time period? This warranty only came about because of ECHO, Stihl's competitor uping their warranty.
I guess this thread has taken on other another meaning.....so I am dropping the topic from my view all because I am a "newbie" here ....Don't want to upset the "apple cart" so to speak.....however I have run saws and had my hands dirty and oiled up with 2 cycle mix since the early 70's!!!!! I guess for all purposes and intents....I should not have replied to the orginal post. I guess I am still stuck on what "Made in Virgina Beach, USA should be....Hoo-Ray for the share holders in Stihl!!!!
Someday....they like GM will also need a government "bailout"!
Dave
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If you want a saw for a 24" bar, look for a 1127 series saw with a scored piston/cylinder and then buy yourself the parts from Asia to make it into a 039/390. That will give you a 64cc saw in the same frame as the MS290. So for the same weight you have more power. These 1127 series saw respond really well to muffler mods. I have an 039 now with Hutzl piston/cylinder in it and cleaned up the ports a bit before assembly, modded the muffler and it cuts pretty similar to my 044. This series of saw gets lambasted a lot on the saw enthusiast internet sites but they are a reliable unit that will cut firewood for years and years and years with proper care.
Regarding the pawn shop prices, I typically sell the 029/MS290 saws around here for $225. I sold a really nice 029 Super recently for $250. The MS290 and 029 Super both have the same 54cc size engine, the regular 029 engine is slightly smaller displacement. The 039 engine is about 64cc.
If you're going to use a saw every day, then this series of saw is not as good as you can get. If you are a firewooder for your own use and are going to use the saw a day per week, it's a viable option. Buy one used, try it for a few months and make your own conclusion. Don't like it? Sell and get your money back. These saws have a good resale value because of the Stihl label.
Go back to the pawn shop with $200 in cash. Tell them if they'll let you take the saw to your vehicle if you leave that much cash on the counter, they have a deal. They may not accept but hey, won't know until you try. They probably have a lot less then that in it. (half that) but they also know what they can get out of them...
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Make in America and assembled with domestic and foreign parts I believe is what it says. I have seen just as many plastic cage bearing problems as I have metal cage problem. Stihl does not make the bearings for there saws, they send there spec to bearing manufacture and the bearing company does the rest. Bearings will never last a life time they take to much abuse. Bearings will last along time most of the bearing problems I have seen are from a crank seal leak. Most homeowner saws are not maintain and serviced like they should be. It's not the bearings fault that some one ran the chain to tight, something has to give and would rather see a bad bearing than a bad crank or crankcase.
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One more thing your opinion about things can make a difference to us all. Makes people think outside the box and sometimes that is a good thing. And other people may learn from what we talk about on here weather we agree with one another or disagree. So being a newbie has nothing to do with it.
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One more thing your opinion about things can make a difference to us all. Makes people think outside the box and sometimes that is a good thing. And other people may learn from what we talk about on here weather we agree with one another or disagree. So being a newbie has nothing to do with it.
I like that.
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Yeah, no need to worry about pissing anyone off about saying what is on your mind, just jump in.
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I'm with Fish, just state your findings and opinions. No worries about upsetting any apple carts. I don't believe anyone here's last name is Stihl.
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Not to change the subject but on that windowed flywheel as I take it some other saws were a beech to get timed .
Started with a 5 I think .Might be 052 .I've never encoutered one myself just curiosity getting the best of me .
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If I was going to carry the weight of the 029 290 310 around, it would have to be a 64cc 390 039 in the heart IMO.
I've worked on some of the 390 with 24" 3/8 chain and they pulled a whole lot better with simple muffler mod and carb retune.