Chainsaw Repair
How To Basics - Carb Fixes + Mods - IPL and Service Manuals => Stickys of How to Basics commonly ask questions => Topic started by: Cut4fun on June 02, 2011, 03:24:21 pm
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Get a .5 refresh rate tach. The 1.5 sec refresh rate from Baileys and EDT 7-8 are to slow for the money. There is a cheapie tach that is 2.5 sc refresh rate and cost $20-$25, it works, accurate but is slow.
Older no longer available tachs like the Stihl EDT-5, DET-302, DET-303, Echo-1000 or 1100 (same as EDT-5). If you find one grab it.
Still available TT-20 and Tiny Tach are all .5 refresh rate and cost $85
If I couldnt find a Oppama made EDT-5 like I have, I would buy one of these new. Amick's link below.
Any of those oppama listed https://www.amickssuperstore.com/Two_and_Four_Cycle_Tachs_Tachometers_s/225.htm
Oppama seem to make the best tachs https://www.oppama.co.jp/tachometer-eng
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Per a trusted stihl man Lakeside.
EDT-7 and 8 tachs will work with all previous Stihl ignitions, as well as the new IEM MS 280, and all future models that have dual magnets in the flywheel. All previous tachs including the EDT-5 will not work on IEM units.
The EDT-7 has a mode button that will allow selecting different engine ignition systems, but this feature is not required on Stihl products. Might be useful on your generator or other engines though...
The EDT-8 has no mode features, and will work with all STIHL products.
These tach do not refresh the display as fast as the EDT-5
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I have the DTI TECH-TACH TT-20K, bought from Amick's (same link as Kevin provided in the first post on this topic). In fact, it may have been Kevin that suggested it in a link posted on another site.
It works well. I'm glad I got something with the quick refresh rate (0.5 sec). The recall of max RPM is also a useful feature.
One thing to look for for someone new to this: there are a lot of cheaper tachs out there that can't measure the high RPMs of a chainsaw. They may work fine on a lawnmower or generator (typically 3600 RPM max), but won't give a good reading for a chainsaw (max RPMs typically in the 12,000 - 15,000 RPM range, or higher if it's a "hot" saw).
I'm still trying to learn to tune by ear. I've been told this is a more reliable way to get a good, safe mixture setting than relying on a tach alone. I'm still no good at it. The Madsen's links on tuning help, with their audio files, but I really need to hear it live a few times from someone who can point out what's going on. For now, I try by ear, then verify with the tach.
A question for you tuning gurus: how does tuning a saw change if you have an RPM-limited ignition coil, when tuning by ear or by tach?
John Mc
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Thanks for bumping this thread Kevin. I'm still not sure which tach I'll go after. Right now I have the sendec from bailey's and really don't care for it.
As for my user name I'll keep it for now. I really like the 460 and will get me another one in the future. (Although I'm really a POULAN GUY)
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Right now I have the sendec from bailey's and really don't care for it.
That one has a 1.5 second refresh rate. To slow. For same money get a .5 second refresh rate. JMO
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I think this is the company that used to make the EDT-5 for Stihl and the Echo 1000. I havent a clue what one would cost or where to get one. looks updated with all the front buttons in pic.
Links have went bad, need to search for them now.
PET 1000 https://www.oppama.co.jp/tachometer-eng
This is one of the older made for stihl ones too, was DET 302 . PET 302 http://www.npelectronicsindia.com/digital-engine-tachometer.htm
https://www.oppama.co.jp/tachometer-eng
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I have a TT-20K, EDT5, PET1000, Echo 1000 and a couple more don't remember what they are. I use the EDT5 most of the time as its the closest one in the box. The TT-20K is the best value. I use it to check the EDT when I'm not sure the EDT is working right. EDT goes stupid occasionally don't know why. If I were in the market for a new tach it would be the TT-20K. Real happy with mine. I've found when checking limited coils they go crazy when you get right at or over the limit of the coil. I start rich on the H screw and slowly lean until I reach max rpms or tach goes crazy.
Shep
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I don't own a high speed tachometer although it would be nice to have .Old school ,just set them by ear .
The times I've checked a few I was pleasantly surprised they were running several thousand RPMs above factory max .Once you change the porting scheme the factory suggested max speed no longer applies .
You know you run them a bit and "read" the plug .If it's that nice light brown color you're pretty well on the money the way I see it .
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See they are selling the OPPAMA PET-1100 Tachometer maker of the older stihl EDT-5 http://www.amickssuperstore.com/OPPAMA_PET_1100_Tachometer_p/oppama%20pet-1100%20tach.htm
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What about the DTI Fast Tach?
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What about the DTI Fast Tach?
http://www.amickssuperstore.com/DTI_2_Cycle_Two_Stroke_Tachometer_Fast_Tach_p/dti%20fast-tach.htm
Amick's info
FAST-TACH is very similiar to the TT-20K tach except it dosn't have cables to check RPM's without handing (when bench testing). It's smaller in size for when you need a tach out in the field.
Product Overview
Wireless tach for high RPM engines.
Large display (easy to read).
Small size to fit in your pocket.
Fast response while reading (good for chainsaws).
20,000 RPM capability.
Maximum RPM recall.
Programmable for different pulses per revolution.
Replaceable battery.
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This is the one that was the stihl edt-5 like I have. http://www.amickssuperstore.com/OPPAMA_PET_1000_Tachometer_p/oppama%20pet-1000%20tach.htm
OPPAMA PET-1000 Tachometer
The OPPAMA PET-1000 Tachometer is a hand held pulse activated tachometer. It detects and counts electric pulses produced at the time of ignition on gasoline engines, and processes the detected signals into rpm readings according to the type of engine being monitored. This tach is capable of monitoring up to 4 different types of engines including 2 and 4 stroke engines. This tachometer comes with a 39" cable w/ clamp to connect to a plug wire for a hands free reading.
We have been using the Oppama tach in our two cycle shop for over 20 years and we love them. They are very thin (1/2") and the refresh rate (the amount of time the tach takes to give you the rpm) is only 0.5th of a second. We are happy to be able to offer this tach at such an affordable price so you too can have this quality tool. Accurately measures within + or- 10 rpms. Made in Japan.
Pulse Engine Stroke Engine Cylinders RPM Range
21:42 2 1 100-19,000
21:42 4 2 100-19,000
22:44 2 2 100-9,500
22:44 4 4 100-9,500
Note: Use 21:42 for Single Cylinder Engines that fire at every revolution the flywheel spins. Some single cylinder engines have a double spark and require using the 21:42 pulse. Also look at the PET-1100 tach as it has more setting for different engines.
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I still have an old Rev-co I bought back in the 90's, it is on its second battery and is good as day 1.
For everyday work saws, I simply tune by ear. I think a lot of guys place too much need in tacks and forget how to correctly tune by ear.
Regarding hotsaws, I think tuning them by tack and reving up to see how high it will go is only going to result in a suger bag full of bits and pieces instead of a race saw. (learned the hard way)
As for saws running 120, that requires a different set of skills to make them run right.
Just my views on the subject, and i'm no expert by any means.
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I tune racesaws and work saws by ear too. I do have my tach for checking my by ear though when I was going for every drop on a gtg saw before a gtg race and saws that come in. Some of the gtg work saws I knew where the sweet spots was and just went from fat work tune to gtg race tune by tach.
Not on a racesaw, couldnt imagine someone trying to do that. :o :P
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Good evening gentlemen. Great Forum! How about this Tach? It's what I use. http://esitest.com/328.html
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Looks good. That's a good price and as long as it does a good job for you - it's great
I use the Fast Tach.
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Thanks. I should have said in the post it has a .75 second update rate and operates off of a 9v battery. The display is also backlit. I used a small Stihl Tach that the batteries could not be changed in before this one.
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Has anybody ever tried using any of Actron meters? I got the one that can do rpm's for 2, 4, 6, and 8 cylinder engines.
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I didnt see this link in your list and thought I would add it. You can buy through Echo or Stihl, maybe direct too, along with the ignition spark tester which has an adjustable gap.
http://www.oppama.co.jp/eng/line/line1.html
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Fast - Tach
(http://imageshack.us/a/img7/8440/zcuy.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img809/2265/gnh3.jpg)
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I've had a Fast Tach for a couple years with no problems
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I bought an oregon analogue tach with low and high rpm settings
,battery condition reader, and automatic off function that runs on 9 volts
and like it but was informed that it probably wasnt very accurate?
any feedback......?
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I grew up in the analog meter days and there's something to be said for them. You can get a good idea of the rpm even though it is constantly changing.
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720 = 2 Sparks pro revolution
180 = 1 spark each 2 revolutions
should this not be inverse : 720 = 1 spark each 2 revolutions ,,,,???
180 = 2 Sparks pro revolution ???
I just received my new TT20K - tach works well on my stihl-chainsaws MS150TC and MS362 - only when it climbes above 10000 rpm then suddenly the tach is reading 5000 - 6000 rpm while my saw is jelling at 11.000 and +
For measuring idle rpm it works - adjusting high rpm's is not possible as tach won't go farther then 6000 rpm.
Max. rpm recall says one time 11000rpm the other time 16000 rpm...... so not reliable at all. ??? ???
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The four cycle lawn mowers and many cars, fire the spark plugs every revolution even though the cylinder itself doesn't actually fire but every other revolution.
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I think 180 = 2 Sparks pro revolution and 720 = 1 spark each 2 revolutions - am I right or am I wrong?? ??? ??? ???
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correct
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Just got an OPPAMA PET-1000R tach with a .5 refresh rate. From echo part number 99051130017.
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Let me know how it performs, I thinking about getting one.
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I have pretty much the same one for years. Market as stihl edt-5 at one time and echo name plate too.
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If I couldnt find a EDT-5 like I have or PET 1000 http://www.npelectronicsindia.com/pet-1000-tachometer.htm
or OPPAMA PET-1100 Tachometer maker of the older stihl EDT-5
http://www.amickssuperstore.com/OPPAMA_PET_1100_Tachometer_p/oppama%20pet-1100%20tach.htm
http://www.amickssuperstore.com/OPPAMA_PET_1000_Tachometer_p/oppama%20pet-1000%20tach.htm
OPPAMA PET-1000 Tachometer
If I couldnt get above I would get the one below.
http://www.amickssuperstore.com/DTI_2_Cycle_Two_Stroke_Tachometer_Tach_p/dti%20tech-tach%20tt-20k%20tach.htm
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This is the one the stihl edt-5 was.
(https://www.amickssuperstore.com/v/vspfiles/photos/OPPAMA%20PET-1000%20Tach-2.jpg?600.593)
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I will let you know. Have a couple of saws to re tune in the next couple of days.
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Had my new tach out today. I am very impressed with it. Far better than my stihl edt -8. Fast refresh and like the fact that it powers off pretty quick and as soon as you get it close to the spark plug it is on and reading rpm. Thanks for the references in the previous post.
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Tim check out the one Shep posted in ebay area. Gooooood deal.
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well I found my tach but I need a copy of the op instructions, anyone have a copy?
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ok, I do not have the wire they call the antenna. do I need the antenna?
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Pet 1000 and 1100 manuals are available online if you need one...
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ok, I do not have the wire they call the antenna. do I need the antenna?
The only time you need the antenna for the DTI 20K tach is if you are getting interference - often from the ignition system, or possibly picking up pulse from more than one cylinder on a multi cylinder engine. (The antenna is a plug on one end, and two clips on the other: one goes to engine ground, the other clamps on the spark plug wire). I've never needed to use it on a chainsaw.
You might try contacting the manufacturer at www.tinytach.com for manual. I did not see one on their web site available for download. If you have no luck there, let me know and I'll scan mine and send it to you. It's only two pages.
for basic operation, just press the button once to turn it on, and it will read RPM. If you press the button one more time, it will display the max RPM reached during the measurement. It will turn off automatically after 1 minute, and clear the Max RPM memory. (NOTE: the unit defaults to assuming there is one spark pulse per engine RPM. Ifthat's not what your engine is doing, there are ways to reset this, but they involve more typing than I'm willing to do. If I remember correctly, the default works for me on my chainsaws.)
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I got the manual from dti. my tach is old enough it has a slider type switch, just off and on. today I tuned my saw I laid the tach on the saw while trying to work the throttle and the mixture screw. hand full.
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Some use a grip to hold tach to handle. Look at mweba videos.
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watched the saw burndown video, the grip worked great will have to pick one up.
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watched the saw burndown video, the grip worked great will have to pick one up.
Post the video here if you would. I dont recall that one.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPxLWyqp7oY&list=UUXrUSTTnD1KfjS6rJBCxhhg
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Dig that!
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LOL we did something like that at a Harley GTG. Except we called it Jap bike blow up with throttle locked wide open. Then we all beat the heck out of it with a sledge hammer over the night of drinking.
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Hahahaha. Sounds like something me and my buddies would do. Lol!
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What is baileys I want to look at the tach you are talking about with the the 1.5 refresh rate?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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What is baileys I want to look at the tach you are talking about with the the 1.5 refresh rate?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
JMO I wouldnt mess with baileys.
Cheap slow 1.5 refresh tach at Amicks http://www.amickssuperstore.com/2_Cycle_Two_Four_Stroke_Tachometer_Tach_p/97958.htm
Better tachs http://www.amickssuperstore.com/Two_and_Four_Cycle_Tachs_Tachometers_s/225.htm
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Talking about tachs and found stihl has a new one edt-9. edt 8 is half the refresh rate of the edt 5 and 20K. .5 sec compared to slow 1 second
Info from Dave on it. = Definitive Dave at CCC
edt 7 and 8 out of production edt 9 has decent speed and works with the multi-pole flywheels.
Head to head still not as fast a refresh as the 20K, I sell both
stihl is really slow to restock the edt9, like months now
stihl no replaceable battery either :(
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Amicks has the stihl edt-9 for $69
Now remember the 9 is faster then the 8. Here is a guy that bought the 9 review.
After using my stihl edt-9 tach for a couple weeks I feel like I can offer an opinion on it.
It's my first tach, which I got because I was tired of tuning by ear, being confidant I wasn't getting the performance I should whilst simultaneously being nervous as hell about burning up a saw.
I researched alot of tachs, but was seduced by the size and mount-ability despite an unknown refresh rate and only a few reviews. It's a lot slower than I was hoping for. Not a full 2....I would put it at 1.5 seconds just my best guess. Not quick enough. It does however offer many cool onboard mounting solutions so will prob find a home on some piece of equipment just not a saw. (Well, maybe on a csm)
Paid $80 or so including shipping from here
http://www.amickssuperstore.com/Stihl_Tach_p/stihl tach.htm
No battery change possible but with my experience with other small lithium(?) powered devices this should outlast its value and then some. its always on which i like. no forgetting to turn it off and toasted battery
see photo of back side of unit. battery permanently covered in injected molded or pressure formed plastic or epoxy of some kind. Can see battery outline. 3v lithium?
Seems robust. Is stupid simple, only one button. I spilled bar oil all over it and it still works. Bounced it around in pockets with keys pocket knives etc. Not worried about longevity.
Antenna attachment is just a loop molded in the plastic closer to the wireless receiver.
No actual plug in. For both the wireless antenna and longer wire w alligator clip, they simply thread into the holes seen in the attached pic. My most reliable results have been with the alligator clip .
See owners manual photo for operation and spark types supported. Does 3 different ignition types based on pulse number and timing: 2 pulses per 1 revolution, 1 pulse per 2 revolutions, and 1 pulse per 1 revolution.
As stated, only one button. The diagram on the directions took me a second to decipher (I'm slow) You hold the button for 3 seconds and it takes you from current RPM to max recorded RPM. If you release within 3 seconds it returns to currently reading, keeping the saved max RPM. Hold it through until the max blinks and returns to zero and you'll then start cycling thru the ignition options at 1 second intervals. You'll stay in the "ignition submenu" as long as you hold the button down. Release it when you're on the type you wish to use. Sounds incredibly difficult but in reality it becomes second nature quickly. If you can send a text message you can use this.
For my purposes it works on my traditional 2 stroke saws. Tested on MS250, MS460s and an 046. Haven't tried it on any other two stroke equipment or my 4mix stuff
So, in summary:
It's small enough to carry anywhere or mount on any piece of gasoline equipment
It's reasonably resilient (only had it 2 weeks)
It's interface is simple quick and reliable
It's finicky about placement on the saw in
antenna mode. Works better on some saws than others Alligator clips yield much better results but require removing plastic and tuning without air filter covers in place etc.
It's refresh rate is slow enough I'm replacing it for shop work. Probably with a DTI or something else at .5 sec refresh. I don't like having to WOT that long just to get a single reading, and half the time not getting one anyways bc of poor placement. This may be my fault, I'm experimenting with different ways of holding it while tuning etc. I suppose I could permanently mount wires to saws and attach the tach when using that saw but that seems like more work that a wireless tach should require
Above reasons mean it's not much use keeping in a pocket while cutting either.
Hope this was helpful for anyone considering an EDT-9
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Just sharing this here. We were talking aabout the stihl edt 9 tach on the CR FB group.
Some folks have been paying $150 for this tach. Why no clue. :o
Amicks has this tach for $69 + shipping. https://www.amickssuperstore.com/Stihl_Tach_p/stihl%20tach.htm
Amick's Price: $89.99
Sale Price: $69.00
You save $20.99!
Product Code: STIHL TACH
(https://www.amickssuperstore.com/v/vspfiles/photos/Stihl%20Tach-2T.jpg)
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What's the refresh rate?
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What's the refresh rate?
Faster then the 8 but still not the .5 we use. Not as fast as the edt-5 TT DTI-20K etc
Per CCC Dave edt 7 and 8 out of production edt 9 has decent speed and works with the multi-pole flywheels.
Head to head still not as fast a refresh as the 20K
Also make sure to read in the tach thread above the feedback of a edt-9 user.
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Nate sells the tach that used to make the stihl edt-5. Still using my edt5 and love it.
Oppama Engine Tachometer PET-1000R has .5 refresh rate
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0706/7903/products/AS_022_1024x1024.jpg?v=1479948656)
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This is a good deal. .5 refresh and $53 plus shipping. Oppama Pulse Engine Tachometer/Hour Meter PET-304 - Echo G310000050
https://www.amazon.com/Oppama-Pulse-Engine-Tachometer-PET-304/dp/B008G48TXC
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OPPAMA PET 302 Husqvarna 502711401 .5 refresh is what you want IMHO $99 here, husky branded $149 and up
Info shared by Amick's. The OPPAMA PET-302R Tachometer is a pulse activated tachometer/hourmeter. It detects and counts electric pulses produced at the time of ignition on gasoline engines, and processes the detected signals into rpm readings according to the type of engine being monitored. This tach is capable of monitoring up to 3 different types of engines including 2 and 4 stroke engines. This tachometer comes with a 39" cable w/ clamp to connect to a plug wire for a hands free reading. Does not work on Diesel Engines.
We have been using the Oppama tach in our two cycle shop for over 20 years and we love them. The refresh rate (the amount of time the tach takes to give you the rpm) is only 0.5 seconds. Accurately measures within + or- 10 rpms. Made in Japan. Has a normal non changeable battery life of 7.5 years using 7 hours per day or 20,000 running hours.
https://www.amickssuperstore.com/OPPAMA_PET_302R_Tachometer_p/oppama%20pet-302r%20tach.htm
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Check out the lower right corner of the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2hYA5JXZx8
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Support engine table Oppama https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/c451b5_ce88e17bb17d445c9c7e44f41aada6ab.pdf
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Good maker of the tachs like the echo 1000 stihl edt 5 etc https://www.oppama.co.jp/tachometer-eng
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New tach that says it has 0.25 refresh rate. I know nothing about it as still using my Oppama made for stihl and echo one. PET-1000R
Proline Solo Chainsaw Tachometer
Product Description
Introducing SOLO™, Proline's latest dedicated tachometer. With the fastest refresh rate on the market at 0.25 sec, this tachometer will be your number 1 choice in test equipment. Enhanced with an “Auto Shut Down” mode to save battery life, and powered manually when desired, every user is assured the best value for their tach. Enjoy the duality of using a wired or wireless mode with SOLO™, along with its waterproof rating of IP68 and a maximum RPM of 20,000. Experience greatness with key elements everyone should use. Experience greatness with SOLO™
Includes:
Tachometer
Wire
Mounting tape 3M (2)
Screw (2)
Tie straps (2)
Instructions
Micro clip with wire
Features:
Tachometer ONLY
Water proof rate: IP68
Epoxy encapsulated casing
Refresh rate 0.25 sec. 2X faster than our 3 in 1 model
Auto shut-off (after 30 mins)
No power required- Includes 7 year battery sealed inside (not replaceable).
Maximum RPM 20,000
Specs:
Size: 2 1/4" x 1 1/2" x 1/2
LCD screen size 1" x 1/2
Refresh rate 0.25 sec
Water proof rate: IP68
https://sawzillaparts.com/proline-solo-chainsaw-tachometer-for-stihl-husqvarna-echo-wireless-fastest-rate-25-sec/