Chainsaw Repair

Husqvarna - Stihl - Poulan - Jonsered - Dolmar chainsaws and more => Husqvarna => Topic started by: hugo on February 25, 2014, 10:06:15 am

Title: Hursqvarna 236e chain snagging/stopping
Post by: hugo on February 25, 2014, 10:06:15 am
Hi all,

Hi first of all,  hope I am not on here too much trying to find help,  rather just maintenance tips.  However...

first visit is for a poor cutting action. (Hursqvarna 236e)

I always sharpen my chain before I start cutting, 6/7 strokes of the file and take any burrs off the outside of the teeth.  It is a new ish saw,  not much used till recently and it revs freely when started.

The problem I am having is when cutting larger logs,  maybe 10" in diameter,  fine for the bar length.  It cuts into the log fine but soon seems to find cutting hard and grinds to a halt,  but the saw is still running.  I have to turn the log and attack it from all sides to cut through.

I am getting oil through,  clean the area around the bar clamp,  but not every time,  and the air filter looks ok.

Is the problem I am just not getting the chain sharp enough or is it that the logs are blunting the chain quickly??  The chain does seem to get very hot to the touch and the cuts produce chips of wood when it cuts.

Many thanks,

Hugo

ps

should I be cleaning round the bar clamp everytime I use it or every few times??
is there anything I could try to improve things??
Title: Re: chain snagging/stopping
Post by: Philbert on February 25, 2014, 10:32:22 am
Welcome to the forum!

Your saw should cut cleanly through the log. When you say the saw is 'still running', you mean that your finger is still on the trigger and the motor is still turning, but the chain stops?  That could be a clutch/drum problem.

Otherwise, it sounds like a chain problem. Don't take offense, but 6-7 file strokes doesn't mean anything if they are not in the right place. If you can post clear, close up photos of your chain cutters, people can comment.

If you try a new chain we can maybe pinpoint your problem or rule it out.

Philbert
Title: Re: chain snagging/stopping
Post by: fordrocks on February 25, 2014, 10:42:21 am
Sounds like it could also be an oiling problem if the chain is getting hot. Have you cleaned out the groove in the bar that the chain rides in, and make sure the holes in the bar where the oil goes through are clear.
Title: Re: chain snagging/stopping
Post by: hugo on February 25, 2014, 10:58:50 am
Thanks for the replies,

Will re sharpen tomorrow as raining here at the moment and post a close up pic of a tooth when I have sharpened it.  I sharpen at the correct angle shown on the file guide and level,  so don't think they are too far out.  I cleaned out the chain clamp are a few days ago and cleaned the groove of the bar out also. 

However,  where are the holes within the bar for lubrication??  Are they just the two large holes in the bar about 1/4" in diameter or are there others I need to locate ??

Regards,

Hugo
Title: Re: chain snagging/stopping
Post by: KilliansRedLeo on February 25, 2014, 11:05:24 am
Should be in either side of the bar and line up with the oil delivery tube in the saw when the bar is in place.
Title: Re: chain snagging/stopping
Post by: gunrac on February 25, 2014, 12:22:21 pm
Thanks for the replies,

Will re sharpen tomorrow as raining here at the moment and post a close up pic of a tooth when I have sharpened it.  I sharpen at the correct angle shown on the file guide and level,  so don't think they are too far out.  I cleaned out the chain clamp are a few days ago and cleaned the groove of the bar out also. 

However,  where are the holes within the bar for lubrication??  Are they just the two large holes in the bar about 1/4" in diameter or are there others I need to locate ??

Regards,

Hugo

Try to get some pics of your bar, showing the channel and nose.  Also, your sprocket.
Title: Re: chain snagging/stopping
Post by: aclarke on February 25, 2014, 01:39:07 pm
Burrs on bar, unequal cutters and or rakers will cause that issue too
Title: Re: chain snagging/stopping
Post by: hugo on February 25, 2014, 02:02:04 pm
Hi all,

cleaned it in the kitchen in the end so could put some pics up for you,  but don't tell the wife lol

took cover off and cleaned up to this

(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu142/walkgraham/2014-02-25162002_zpsac2c602f.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/walkgraham/media/2014-02-25162002_zpsac2c602f.jpg.html)

cover cleaned to this

(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu142/walkgraham/2014-02-25163110_zps603cdbb0.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/walkgraham/media/2014-02-25163110_zps603cdbb0.jpg.html)

I take it that the black strip is where the oil is sent to the chain through?

(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu142/walkgraham/2014-02-25162013_zpsfebbe8c4.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/walkgraham/media/2014-02-25162013_zpsfebbe8c4.jpg.html)

As for the bar and holes,  the sprocket hole was clear and I could see the sprocket through it and the bar holes were clean like this 

(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu142/walkgraham/2014-02-25162133_zps9ad49e86.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/walkgraham/media/2014-02-25162133_zps9ad49e86.jpg.html)

(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu142/walkgraham/2014-02-25162150_zpsecae173b.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/walkgraham/media/2014-02-25162150_zpsecae173b.jpg.html)

I gave the chain a re sharpen.  Before

(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu142/walkgraham/2014-02-25164501_zps800e2d96.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/walkgraham/media/2014-02-25164501_zps800e2d96.jpg.html)

after

(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu142/walkgraham/2014-02-25164515_zps608f6e2c.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/walkgraham/media/2014-02-25164515_zps608f6e2c.jpg.html)

(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu142/walkgraham/2014-02-25164621_zps285d0c48.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/walkgraham/media/2014-02-25164621_zps285d0c48.jpg.html)

(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu142/walkgraham/2014-02-25165237_zps3c4a3642.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/walkgraham/media/2014-02-25165237_zps3c4a3642.jpg.html)

(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu142/walkgraham/2014-02-25165231_zpsb897f714.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/walkgraham/media/2014-02-25165231_zpsb897f714.jpg.html)

(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu142/walkgraham/2014-02-25165308_zpsca58eefa.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/walkgraham/media/2014-02-25165308_zpsca58eefa.jpg.html)

Tension on the chain was like this

(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu142/walkgraham/2014-02-25163818_zpsdf240fcf.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/walkgraham/media/2014-02-25163818_zpsdf240fcf.jpg.html)

I files some small burrs from the bar too,  first time I have done this tbh.

Oil seems to be getting to the chain as all is oily under the cover and the chain is too.  I did a few cuts on some 6" logs and it does seem to be cutting better so might have been a cleanliness and sharpness problem,  but it did snag once. I am not sure if it was me tilting the saw and therefore snagged it that way but really need to get a bigger log tomorrow and test it.

Does all look ok for my cleaning and sharpening regime??

What is the raker distances you are talking about ??


many thanks again,

Hugo
Title: Re: Hursqvarna 236e chain snagging/stopping
Post by: Philbert on February 25, 2014, 02:40:04 pm
Quote
. . .cleaned it in the kitchen in the end so could put some pics up for you,  . . . .I take it that the black strip is where the oil is sent to the chain through?

Very clean saw!  Helpful photos.  Yes, there is a hole in that slot where the oil comes through.  It empties into that slot because the bar moves forward and back with the adjustment, and it has to align with a hole in the bar.  Keep both clean with a toothpick.  The hole in the bar nose is for greasing the nose sprocket - that is a separate topic (some guys do, some guys don't).

Quote
I gave the chain a re sharpen. . . I files some small burrs from the bar too,  first time I have done this tbh.

It does not look like you are filing the cutting edges - they still look dull.  It is a common mistake to file the gullet of the cutter, instead of the top plate and side plate edges that actually do the cutting.  You should see clean, new metal on both these edges after you file, and not be able to see the reflected light visible in your photos. Compare your sharpened chain edges to a new chain for reference.

Check out the illustrations in this manual:
http://www.oregonproducts.com/maintenance/manual.htm (pages 2-3, 32-41)

I would encourage you to not file off any burrs on the teeth after sharpening.  They come right off as soon as you cut, and you may be damaging your new edge when you try to do this with a file or stone.  Filing burrs off of the bar edges is a good maintenance practice.

Also, pay attention to getting each tooth, on both sides, the same length and same angles.  Most guys are stronger on one side or the other, and end up with unequal cutters that cut rough, or pull to one side.

Quote
What is the raker distances you are talking about ??

"Raker' is a misleading term.  It is really a 'depth gauge', which controls how deep of a cut/how large of a chip you will make with each pass of the cutter.  If the depth gauge is too high, you will not cut much at all, even with razor sharp cutters.  If the depth gauge is too low, the chain will dig in and try to tear the wood, bogging down and giving a rough cut.

On your chain, you want to set the depth gauge at 0.025" below the top plate cutting edge.  See Oregon manual above.

Philbert

P.S. - here is an illustration I posted in another thread which may be helpful.
Title: Re: Hursqvarna 236e chain snagging/stopping
Post by: aclarke on February 25, 2014, 03:11:29 pm
What size file are you using? Try a 5/32"
Title: Re: Hursqvarna 236e chain snagging/stopping
Post by: Cut4fun . on February 25, 2014, 03:23:28 pm
Chain looks blunt to me.  Cant think of a better term.

Pic from above. Also like Adam said get 5/32" file. Looks like you used to big of a file.

(http://chainsawrepair.createaforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3172.0;attach=5988;image)
Title: Re: Hursqvarna 236e chain snagging/stopping
Post by: hugo on February 25, 2014, 03:42:34 pm
I am using a 5/32 file in a flat guide like this

http://www.mowersupermarket.co.uk/product/323-73/OregonChainsawSharpenerandGuide16265%20http://mowersupermarket.co.uk/oregon-chainsaw-sharpener-and-guide-16265

In this pic there seems to be a file shaped area below the top edge,  is this what you mean by leaving the cutting edge blunt ??

(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu142/walkgraham/2014-02-25165231_zpsb897f714.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/walkgraham/media/2014-02-25165231_zpsb897f714.jpg.html)

I will post a pic of the file position tomorrow as it's too late now.  I have noticed that I am cutting lob sided,  which fits with me maybe sharpening better one side than the other.  Will try to get a better pic of the sharpened edge too. 

Many thanks for the help,  will continue tomorrow lol

Graham
Title: Re: Hursqvarna 236e chain snagging/stopping
Post by: Philbert on February 25, 2014, 04:25:21 pm
It is the top plate edge, and the upper part of the side plate edge that do the cutting.

The file guide you referenced is supposed to hold the file at the right height (1/5 above the top plate), with the guide resting on the top plate and top of the depth gauge.  But the photos you posted do not appear to show you filing in that area.

Sometimes it is hard to tell from photos.  Maybe this (attached) helps?

Philbert
Title: Re: Hursqvarna 236e chain snagging/stopping
Post by: fordrocks on February 25, 2014, 07:16:27 pm
try pulling up on the file as you are filing to make sure you are sharpening the top/cutting edge.
Title: Re: Hursqvarna 236e chain snagging/stopping
Post by: 660magnum on February 25, 2014, 07:20:13 pm
try pulling up on the file as you are filing to make sure you are sharpening the top/cutting edge.
I eventually decided I was getting a better file job as I started pulling instead of pushing.
Title: Re: Hursqvarna 236e chain snagging/stopping
Post by: hugo on February 28, 2014, 03:47:12 pm
Hi all,

I looked at how the file was sitting on the teeth and this is how it is

(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu142/walkgraham/IMG_0065_zpsbee88a4e.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/walkgraham/media/IMG_0065_zpsbee88a4e.jpg.html)

I gave it another sharpen and this was the result.  I tried to pull the file up onto the underside of the tooth.

(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu142/walkgraham/sharp2_zpsfbb618e6.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/walkgraham/media/sharp2_zpsfbb618e6.jpg.html)

How do they look??

I have no bigger logs to cut up yet so that will have to wait but they feel sharper.  One thing about using the file guide,  I was resting it on the top of the tooth and the top of the hook thing opposite the cutting face,  if you get what I mean,  is this ok or should the file guide only touch the top of the tooth?

Thanks,

Graham
Title: Re: Hursqvarna 236e chain snagging/stopping
Post by: aclarke on February 28, 2014, 04:45:03 pm
Looks like you're getting the hang of it! Try filing without the guide on a junk chain and learn to file without the guide.
Title: Re: Hursqvarna 236e chain snagging/stopping
Post by: Philbert on February 28, 2014, 09:52:52 pm
Quote
How do they look?? . . .

Looks like you are getting your money's worth from that chain!

Quote
One thing about using the file guide,  I was resting it on the top of the tooth and the top of the hook thing opposite the cutting face,  if you get what I mean,  is this ok or should the file guide only touch the top of the tooth?

Yes - you are using it correctly.  That is what holds the file at the correct height.  You just need to focus on keeping it level, and at a consistent angle while filing.

Looks like you should also check your depth gauges ('rakers').  They need to be filed down periodically so that the cutting edges bite off the right amount of wood.  I use the Oregon gauge with the space in the middle, which works good with the low-kickback chain you are using.  Round over the front edges of the depth gauges after filing, so that they have the same profile as when new.

Philbert



Philbert
Title: Re: Hursqvarna 236e chain snagging/stopping
Post by: SawTroll on February 28, 2014, 11:36:59 pm
Hi all,

I looked at how the file was sitting on the teeth and this is how it is

(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu142/walkgraham/IMG_0065_zpsbee88a4e.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/walkgraham/media/IMG_0065_zpsbee88a4e.jpg.html)

I gave it another sharpen and this was the result.  I tried to pull the file up onto the underside of the tooth.

(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu142/walkgraham/sharp2_zpsfbb618e6.jpg) (http://s642.photobucket.com/user/walkgraham/media/sharp2_zpsfbb618e6.jpg.html)

How do they look??

I have no bigger logs to cut up yet so that will have to wait but they feel sharper.  One thing about using the file guide,  I was resting it on the top of the tooth and the top of the hook thing opposite the cutting face,  if you get what I mean,  is this ok or should the file guide only touch the top of the tooth?

Thanks,

Graham

Those guides are basically useless, as they don't let you see what you are doing with the file. If you have too use a guide, use a Husky roller guide, but make sure you get the 3/8" low profile variant.

The best is to file freehand, while looking closely at what you are doing. Use a file handle with an angle indicator, that will get the angle close enough (the exact angle isn't critical, but the higth of the file is).
Title: Re: Hursqvarna 236e chain snagging/stopping
Post by: Philbert on March 01, 2014, 10:28:39 am
Quote
Yes - you are using it correctly.  That is what holds the file at the correct height

Quote
Those guides are basically useless, . . . The best is to file freehand, while looking closely at what you are doing

To the OP - please remember that the advice here is worth what you pay for it, and clearly, often contradictory, as contributors share their opinions.  Choose what makes sense to you, try it, and see what works for you.

Someday I hope to make a trip to Norway and see what his chains actually look like, and cut like, in person . . . .

Philbert

(P.S. - Nikko, I don't think that the Swedish roller guides will work with the chain shown in the photographs.)
Title: Re: Hursqvarna 236e chain snagging/stopping
Post by: SawTroll on March 01, 2014, 10:42:21 am
.

.........

On your chain, you want to set the depth gauge at 0.025" below the top plate cutting edge.  See Oregon manual above.

Philbert

......


On new chain that is - with used chain the proper setting increase gradually as the teeth are filed back, to keep the "angle of attack" correct. That is why raker guides need to be progressive, like the Husky ones and the Carlton FOP - they take the guesswork out of it.
Title: Re: Hursqvarna 236e chain snagging/stopping
Post by: Cut4fun . on March 01, 2014, 10:51:09 am
I dont use the husky guides either. I like the ones like shown above.

I have had guys that could  not hand sharpen a lick with just bare file before (didnt matter how much instruction I gave or showed).
I tried putting a guide like shown above on so they could test out (after I showed them in shop what to to do) and they could at least now touch up their chains in the field and keep sawing. 

I thought the rakers in pic above might need a hit too.

Title: Re: Hursqvarna 236e chain snagging/stopping
Post by: SawTroll on March 01, 2014, 10:54:25 am
......

(P.S. - Nikko, I don't think that the Swedish roller guides will work with the chain shown in the photographs.)
The 3/8"lp roller guide will, but likely not the raker guide, because the "flags" on the tie straps are in the way.

He really needs to get some proper chain, without those "flag" bumpers.
Title: Re: Hursqvarna 236e chain snagging/stopping
Post by: Philbert on March 01, 2014, 01:12:18 pm
Quote
The 3/8"lp roller guide will, but likely not the raker guide, because the "flags" on the tie straps are in the way.

Tried it.  Does not fit.  The bumper tie-straps prevent the roller guide from seating properly on the chain.  The low-kickback chain with the bumper drive links allow the use of the correct sized roller guides.

I like the roller guides.  They are very popular.  The advantage of the flat style file guides is that they will work with any style chain, as long as the correct size is used.

Philbert
Title: Re: Hursqvarna 236e chain snagging/stopping
Post by: SawTroll on March 01, 2014, 03:12:01 pm
Quote
The 3/8"lp roller guide will, but likely not the raker guide, because the "flags" on the tie straps are in the way.

Tried it.  Does not fit.  The bumper tie-straps prevent the roller guide from seating properly on the chain.  The low-kickback chain with the bumper drive links allow the use of the correct sized roller guides.

I like the roller guides.  They are very popular.  The advantage of the flat style file guides is that they will work with any style chain, as long as the correct size is used.

Philbert

OK, I never tried one in 3/8" lp, as I don't use any such chain. Also, there are many chain models that the roller guides will work on, just not the worst kind of "safety" chain. 
Title: Re: Hursqvarna 236e chain snagging/stopping
Post by: Cut4fun . on March 01, 2014, 04:07:45 pm
Quote
The 3/8"lp roller guide will, but likely not the raker guide, because the "flags" on the tie straps are in the way.

Tried it.  Does not fit.  The bumper tie-straps prevent the roller guide from seating properly on the chain.  The low-kickback chain with the bumper drive links allow the use of the correct sized roller guides.

I like the roller guides.  They are very popular.  The advantage of the flat style file guides is that they will work with any style chain, as long as the correct size is used.

Philbert

OK, I never tried one in 3/8" lp, as I don't use any such chain. Also, there are many chain models that the roller guides will work on, just not the worst kind of "safety" chain. 

Niko what do you use on the 339?
Title: Re: Hursqvarna 236e chain snagging/stopping
Post by: Cut4fun . on March 01, 2014, 04:12:50 pm
Quote
The 3/8"lp roller guide will, but likely not the raker guide, because the "flags" on the tie straps are in the way.

Tried it.  Does not fit.  The bumper tie-straps prevent the roller guide from seating properly on the chain.  The low-kickback chain with the bumper drive links allow the use of the correct sized roller guides.

I like the roller guides.  They are very popular.  The advantage of the flat style file guides is that they will work with any style chain, as long as the correct size is used.

Philbert

OK, I never tried one in 3/8" lp, as I don't use any such chain. Also, there are many chain models that the roller guides will work on, just not the worst kind of "safety" chain. 

Niko what do you use on the 339?

Never mind Niko I see they come with .325 abroad.  http://www.husqvarna.com/ie/products/professional-chainsaws/339-xp/#specifications
Title: Re: Hursqvarna 236e chain snagging/stopping
Post by: SawTroll on March 01, 2014, 04:22:50 pm
Yes, the 339xp is the only saw I use .325NK on.
Title: Re: Hursqvarna 236e chain snagging/stopping
Post by: hugo on March 02, 2014, 02:57:50 am
Do I have a 'safety' chain??  What are the better chains to get ??  I am in the UK

Thanks
Title: Re: Hursqvarna 236e chain snagging/stopping
Post by: Philbert on March 02, 2014, 09:20:45 am
Quote
Do I have a 'safety' chain??  What are the better chains to get ??

It's a bad term. Any chain can cut your arm off.

The chain you have is a 'low kickback' or 'reduced kickback' style.  Which, as it's real name implies, reduces the risk of one particular hazard.  It is fine and appropriate for what you are doing if properly sharpened.   Be careful with some of the guys on these sites who will swear that you need a Ferrari or Porsche just to get groceries.

There are other styles with this feature as well, and yours does look like it is getting towards the end of it's useful life. Don't know how or where you buy yours, but you current chain looks like it is Oregon 91VG. Oregon 91PX has similar low kickback properties and does not have the large bumpers SawTroll mentioned. Visit the Oregon website for more specific info on these chain types.

But I will run either of those chains if sharp.

Philbert
Title: Re: Hursqvarna 236e chain snagging/stopping
Post by: 660magnum on March 02, 2014, 10:29:16 am
Philbert say's . . .  "But I will run either of those chains if sharp"

Me too.

I don't go out and buy these styles new but have some "safety chains" that came on used chainsaws. If sharpened correctly, they cut good enough for me and I use them up.