Chainsaw Repair
Husqvarna - Stihl - Poulan - Jonsered - Dolmar chainsaws and more => Echo => Topic started by: 1manband on April 19, 2014, 01:32:09 pm
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picked one of these up today, for what i think is reasonable price.
initial thoughts (before putting it into wood):
-seems it likes cheeseburgers a little more than salads.
-plastic looks thinner than your typical husq.
-one of the spring anti-vibe attachment points is to a plastic tab.
-another attachment point for the spring anti-vibe has an unusual nylon strap. (believe it may be there to limit total movement?).
-air filter is nylon mesh. looks more like an after thought. seems wimpy, and do hope it will seal well, unsure that it really can at this point.
-chain adjuster location is very convenient. bar nuts do seem small.
-the dog resembles a steel stamping.
-equipped with an 18" guide bar, it's well balanced, and does not tip over like my husq at rest.
-the effective cutting length of the 18" bar seems very short. whether it's from the large dog teeth or something else, will measure it, to be certain.
-has a winter/summer slider, i'll have to look through the instruction booklet to see which position is which.
it is, what it is.
the saw came with a sqrench, and weird kick-back bar end adapter w/nut and bolt, in the bag.
as soon as i can figure out how to correct my camera/computer hardware recognition problem, will post up some photos of the observations above.
regards
-joe
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closer look on a few things:
-adjustable oiler
-plastic clutch cover
-chain drive spur gear looks of good quality, to drive the oregon 3/8 ths chain.
-inboard clutch. (anyone who has taken a clutch cover off a husq with the chainbrake on should know what i think about this. yay! hahaha.)
-tried moving the winter/summer operation switch, it got stuck on winter position.......
....this led me to have to remove the carb mounting bolts. (did not want to break anything).
then found:
-walbro carb, mounting bolts (T27) seem to thread into plastic. (possibly, metal nuts are on the back side, but i did not remove to be sure. did see tapped threads going through the plastic, though). the intake tract looks like a straight shot into the cylinder.
-air filter, which originally thought may be an issue, is not. fully enclosed and sealed, and should work fine.
-plenty of room in the bottom of clutch cover to eject long sliver chips when noodling.
-the muffler exhaust outlet location, is on the top face of the box muffler. directly under the plastic chain brake handle. looks similar to typical style, as used on their weed-beaters.
-the gasoline level can be seen somewhat in bright sunlight, through the semi-transparent tank plastic. on a cloudy day, good luck with seeing that.
-joe
(still working on the pictures problem).
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pic #1 oiler: turned it down to lowest setting. exxon valdez in oiler.
pic #2 "nylon strap to anti-vibe
pic #3 muffler outlet location
pic #4 oregon? bar
now that i can post up photos again, will post up some tweaks made air box, and carb.
ran it: first impression, it's good, not fast... but has some torque. did not bog down, under some downpressure.
muffler temp at the after 1 tank was 181*F. don't think that was too high at all for a cat equipped muff. (measured with a fluke IR thermometer). in comparison, my Husq 340, (without a cat muffler) runs 168*F.
-joe
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No cat in these mufflers that I know of.
Be very careful with those carb mount bolts. With my calibrated wrist a half sneeze past snug and the bolts strip. If they strip, you will need the echo 8000 nuts and bolts or a new tank because the partition is part of the tank.
Im working with one now. I opened up the muffler and widened the intake and exhaust/transfers and put a bigger carb on to see how it would react. The air box is pretty restrictive so I went with a v-stack and a uni-filter. Weather permitting will run it this weekend and let you know.
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thanks for the heads up on those carb bolts, sharkey.
the instruction manual said "catalytic emissions." sticker says my saw was born on may 2013. did not take a peek into the muffler yet. hope it does not have one.
the partstree site listed two IPL's for the cs-590. one for 2012 models? and 2013? guessing on years, because it goes by serial #'s. could you by chance be working on a 2012?
that air box elbow to carb thing is odd. trimmed it down quite a bit. your solution sounds better.
got the carb tweaked up, but went way too far. now, can't get a steady idle. i'll get the idle back. just need to get the soldering iron out, and some more tweaking to find the right size hole. once a couple of small parts come in, the tweak will become permanent. will post some pics, later tonight of the process.
regards
-joe
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Hi Joe,
The one Im working with is a 2010, 600p. I wanted an early one to see what was coming in the way of changes. So far I havent seen much.
What did you do to the carb?
Bob
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bob.........the carb stuff is nothing fancy. the camera i left at work, will post them tomorrow. the pics will explain it a whole lot better then i can do with words.
idea is get better mid range and WOT adjustability. the idle speed screw is turned in on the stock carb say "x"amount of turns, the air goes by the small indent on the butterfly, but quite a bit of the air gets by the butterfly by going around the outer circumference of the butterfly. the combined air helps set the mix at idle speed.
i turn the idle screw out as many turns out it takes to just close the butterfly completely. (what that does), now the only air that can get by the butterfly, is going through the small indent. then i drill a few holes in the butterfly, which will control idle speed air only. thing is, you have to guess how big and/or how many. tune the saw as usual, get it hot, then tune the idle speed.
thats the gist of it. right now, i have too large and/or too many holes. idle leans out and speed goes up. plugging the holes one by one, then test/tune, after each plug. then i'll get a new butterfly. then tranfer the best final best size hole to it.
right now, it runs very well, except for the idle. the low speed is more like an intermediate jet, the high is still the high, but the hole is now like an fake idle jet. hope it makes sense. if not, the photos hopefully will. some photos show some mistakes and bad guesses made along the way made as well. but it's all part of the process.
regards
-joe
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Here are a couple pics of this 600p with the V-stack and Uni sock filter.
The HDA-66 on there now is a little larger. Dimensions for the HDA-66 are: Choke Bore 22.20mm, Venturi 15.88mm and Throttle Bore 19mm. Original HDA-268 is 19mm Choke Bore, 15.08 Venturi, and 19mm throttle bore. The 590/600p uses the longer resonance tuning of the air box with the smaller choke bore of the HDA-268. Take your air box all the way off and look at it from where it attaches to the carb. All together it looks to be about 4 inches in length. I havent done the calculations on the intake, Im just trying different carbs to see if there are any benefits that jump out at me.
When you had your carb apart and the metering diaphragm off, did you notice the feed hole in the main nozzle base? Semi-fixed H jet at .058mm. It will feed fuel directly from the metering chamber no matter where you have your H twist jet set at. Should only flow when vacuum is high though. I dont think its a bad idea, just there for warranty purposes I suppose. Can plug it if you want to. Usually these Walbro carbs will flow plenty of fuel, its getting enough air to burn that fuel that matters.
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Pic 2
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Here are a couple pics of this 600p with the V-stack and Uni sock filter.
The HDA-66 on there now is a little larger. Dimensions for the HDA-66 are: Choke Bore 22.20mm, Venturi 15.88mm and Throttle Bore 19mm. Original HDA-268 is 19mm Choke Bore, 15.08 Venturi, and 19mm throttle bore. The 590/600p uses the longer resonance tuning of the air box with the smaller choke bore of the HDA-268. Take your air box all the way off and look at it from where it attaches to the carb. All together it looks to be about 4 inches in length. I havent done the calculations on the intake, Im just trying different carbs to see if there are any benefits that jump out at me.
When you had your carb apart and the metering diaphragm off, did you notice the feed hole in the main nozzle base? Semi-fixed H jet at .058mm. It will feed fuel directly from the metering chamber no matter where you have your H twist jet set at. Should only flow when vacuum is high though. I dont think its a bad idea, just there for warranty purposes I suppose. Can plug it if you want to. Usually these Walbro carbs will flow plenty of fuel, its getting enough air to burn that fuel that matters.
bob.......thanks for sharing the good info! like the way you are going with this. totally agree with the point, you make, that it needs more air. how is it with the larger carby?
haven't gotten to the point of thinking about intake length tuning. will work out some numbers on 4 inches, to see what we have. thought about this kind of thing a long while ago, the lengths needed were more than 4 inches if i remember correctly. maybe can shoot for a harmonic of the proper length??
have not taken the bottom of the carby off. did not want to plug anything after seeing how much fuel 298A can add.
my angle of thinking to all this, is just trying to delay the crossover feed point of the of the low to high speed jet to a higher rpm. similar to the way a bigger carb behaves, compared to stock.
pics in my next post.
regards
-joe
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note: this is the process i used. the holes were too large and too many. since then have plugged and got closer to a working result. so, don't use these hole sizes or hole count!!! will post what ends up being the best i found, but have not reached finding that point yet. note: also trimmed off 0.020 inch off of the stock butterfly indent. the saw ran great, but had too high of idle rpm, (clutch engaged), an idle was unsteady surge. the mid to high rpm were quite a noticeable difference better.
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next:
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note : on pic 0012 ..................this "L" shaped tab on the throttle shaft was bent down even to the the point of the idle speed screw.
going to mention this an additional time, this is not the final result, just the process i used.
-joe
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Wow super nice how to's with pics. Thanks for sharing info.
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Wow super nice how to's with pics. Thanks for sharing info.
if it does not help, easy to change back to what it was. three dollars in parts. right now, it's not helping.
currently stick expoxied two of the 3 additional holes shut. leaving a single 0.060 inch hole and 0.020 inch indent. this made the saw idle too slow, (with throttle butterfly completely shut).
as the holes were closed off, the effect of better mid-range to better high rpm operation decreases. disappointing.
to try to get some of that back, increases single 0.060 inch hole to 0.073 inch. testing this change tonight, the idle speed is just below clutch engagement. runs pretty well at mid to high rpm. but again, it's not nearly as good as with all running all 3 additonal holes. you win some and lose some.
another thing to mention is the sudden stalling lack of fuel after idling for about 30 seconds, after test cut.
don't like fiddling with metering springs to get more fuel delivery. anyone have some ideas?
gotta think about this over a beverage.
-joe
will post some pics of this.
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Hi Joe,
Be careful with the B12. That stuff is known to melt the check valves inside the high speed nozzle. Walbro HDA-268 doesnt have a replaceable nozzle fwiw so if you melt it you will need to make some other arrangements. I may be telling you something you already know? There are two kinds of check valves in the H side of the walbro carbs. i. is a capillary seal type and ii. is a mechanical seal. The reason that the check valve is needed is to keep the baro pressure from getting down inside the metering chamber of the carb. Symptoms of a leaker is an idle mixture that wont tune. One moment lean the next rich and so on. Wont accelerate from an idle (bog).
The black plastic 'scoop' that is in the air filter is a spit back plate. In a piston ported engine, the piston skirt closes off the intake. When this happens any speed that has accumulated in the intake track slams into the skirt. Air itself doesnt really have a whole lot of impact, but once mixed with fuel is heavy and thick. The inertia of the fuel bounces off the skirt and splashes out into the air filter. The spit back plate is there to catch this and keep it out of the atmosphere.
Thanks for the pics on the throttle plate adjustment. I could see where this would make a big difference on the high speed hit.
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The other thing that crossed my mind about transition fuel delivery is the 'idle' holes which are drilled into the throat of the carb below the welsh plug. Usually there are 3. The 1st one should be visible from the throat with the plate closed looking into the throttle bore. #2 is directly beneath the plate, at the cutout, with the plate closed. #3 is on the venturi side of the plate.
Im trying to post the drawings for the 268, the hole sizes are in the narrative. I dont know how much larger I would go with those holes unless you want to start running alcohol instead of gas.
***Keeps saying the file is too large, let me try something else***
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Schematic of HDA-268
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Hi Joe,
Be careful with the B12. That stuff is known to melt the check valves inside the high speed nozzle. Walbro HDA-268 doesnt have a replaceable nozzle fwiw so if you melt it you will need to make some other arrangements. I may be telling you something you already know? There are two kinds of check valves in the H side of the walbro carbs. i. is a capillary seal type and ii. is a mechanical seal. The reason that the check valve is needed is to keep the baro pressure from getting down inside the metering chamber of the carb. Symptoms of a leaker is an idle mixture that wont tune. One moment lean the next rich and so on. Wont accelerate from an idle (bog).
edit: taken from bob's post above.
... wanted to post this very informative link, (the best i have found)..... for basic carby operation, so folks can get a visual understanding of what you are referring to....... http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=326599
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Hi Joe,
Be careful with the B12. That stuff is known to melt the check valves inside the high speed nozzle. Walbro HDA-268 doesnt have a replaceable nozzle fwiw so if you melt it you will need to make some other arrangements. I may be telling you something you already know? There are two kinds of check valves in the H side of the walbro carbs. i. is a capillary seal type and ii. is a mechanical seal. The reason that the check valve is needed is to keep the baro pressure from getting down inside the metering chamber of the carb. Symptoms of a leaker is an idle mixture that wont tune. One moment lean the next rich and so on. Wont accelerate from an idle (bog).
The black plastic 'scoop' that is in the air filter is a spit back plate. In a piston ported engine, the piston skirt closes off the intake. When this happens any speed that has accumulated in the intake track slams into the skirt. Air itself doesnt really have a whole lot of impact, but once mixed with fuel is heavy and thick. The inertia of the fuel bounces off the skirt and splashes out into the air filter. The spit back plate is there to catch this and keep it out of the atmosphere.
Thanks for the pics on the throttle plate adjustment. I could see where this would make a big difference on the high speed hit.
heya bob....
thanks for the heads up on the epoxy. glad you mentioned this. applied the epoxy to fill the extra holes i drilled throttle butterfly, only for testing purposes. would not recommend using it for long term operation. do not know for certain, if stick epoxy can resist the effect of fuel. (however, for a more permanent fix, marinetex, seems to work pretty well for this).
think you are spot on about the check valve(s) giving me the fits. could this problem be caused by the added pressure drop the extra air hole(s) have over the high speed check valve...... keeping it open, when it should be closed at idle speed?
the black plastic "scoop": read somewhere that the intake pulses resonate through the intake tract, and fuel gets metered multiple times during each piston stroke, as air gets being bounced back and forth through the carb.
good stuff bob!
regards
-joe
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The other thing that crossed my mind about transition fuel delivery is the 'idle' holes which are drilled into the throat of the carb below the welsh plug. Usually there are 3. The 1st one should be visible from the throat with the plate closed looking into the throttle bore. #2 is directly beneath the plate, at the cutout, with the plate closed. #3 is on the venturi side of the plate.
Im trying to post the drawings for the 268, the hole sizes are in the narrative. I dont know how much larger I would go with those holes unless you want to start running alcohol instead of gas.
***Keeps saying the file is too large, let me try something else***
tried measuring the idle progression holes before you posted the schematic. (+1 on the schematic by the way! i have to figure out how to enlarge the schematic so i can actually read it). the only thing i have here to measure holes this small is a ancient spark plug wire guage. (in a pinch, putting a round toothpick in a small hole, rotating it, so it leaves an indent mark, and then using dial calipers to measure the pick gets me close).
i really don't want to enlarge any of these idle holes. have jet drills, but will surely end up making a mess of them.
at this point, my single hole is centered even with the high speed discharge in height. think that enlarging the indent on the throttle butterfly, may be a better option than using the present drilled hole location. probably would pull more fuel out of the idle holes at idle speed.
will buy a few extra butterflies to test this idea out further. want to keep this simple, and cheap.
i'd give up up this in a second, and revert to getting a new stock throttle butterfly, if it were not for the fact that the change in carb response was so good with the additional drilled holes. i
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for me to post pics, it has turned into a three computer process. work computer to download camera pics; then transfer to memory stick; put into home desktop pc to shrink; then laptop with internet connection to put on site. oh well.
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regards
-joe
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I ran a few tanks through my 600p this weekend. The porting has it occasionally pinging off the limiter so will switch out to a larger rim or move to a longer bar. The saw ran pretty good all things considered. Most noteable was fuel consumption. Burned 30% more fuel with the larger carb. To do a fair size Maple, limbing and bucking, I was burning almost a whole tank.
The diagrams got kinda fuzzy when they were re-sized to post. If you would like me to email the originals, send me an email address via pm.
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nice, sounds like time well spent!
curious, do you think the 30% increase in fuel consumption, was mainly from the larger venturi carby?......or from the saw now being able to make more power (and now spending more time), in a higher rpm range?
going to be purchasing a longer guide bar for mine soon, how long of a bar will you be getting?
-joe
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Im thinking about changing out the ignition. Echo offers both limited and non limited magnetos on their engines, hope to come up with something w/o spending alot of $. The 'digital' type seem to be the limited ones but the amount of advance is also a consideration. Current timing is; 11 degrees BTDC at 3k rpm, then 32 degrees BTDC at 8k rpm, which then drops one degree and stays at 31 degrees BTDC at 12k rpm. 13500 +/- 200 seems to be the magic number on the limiter.
If the engine is making more power. it should use some more fuel. It just seemed like I was really going through the gas on that one tree. We are clearing a piece of property and Ive cut down about 30 fair sized hardwood trees there so far. The bars we have are 24, 28 and 32 inch D176 mount so will keep monkeying around till I find something I like. I really wanted to keep this saw light though and was wanting to keep the 20 inch bar. I switched to an 8pin rim to see how it affects the limiter.
If your trying to find one saw to handle most of what you will encounter, the 590/600 should be a winner. My problem is, as I get older, Im looking for a saw to be light weight. I dont want all the weight that the bigger saws come with but I do want the chain speed and power. Maybe I should set this little hot rod up with .325 skip on a 28 inch bar?
Below is an attachment with some additional engine info.
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Don't think you're gonna make any more power with an unlimited coil unless it's hitting the limiter in the cut now which I'd unlikely
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happy so far with my saw purchase. very smooth cutting.
how does the echo limiter work?.......does it drop every other spark? ....or is it dropping all the sparks at a preset rpm?
did not know the bar pattern, thanks. will look into those options. echo has a 27 inch bar available, maybe will give that one a go. like my little 340 for the smaller diameter stuff, bought the 590 mainly for some medium diameter trees that will need to come down soon. at the time being, don't foresee needing anything larger in cc than this 590, if it can pull a longer bar.
i don't have much time, but usually am in no hurry when cutting. chain speed does not mean all that much to me. way i look at it is, the sawing is the easy part. know that when i'm tired, easier for accidents to happen.
regards
-joe
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Most of the coil limiters have an opposing wound smaller coil in them that bucks the main coil at the higher rpms, causing the spark to get weak. It will oscillate around as the rpm changes and give you the impression that it is every other spark?
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Most of the coil limiters have an opposing wound smaller coil in them that bucks the main coil at the higher rpms, causing the spark to get weak. It will oscillate around as the rpm changes and give you the impression that it is every other spark?
where is the stored energy going when the spark is dropped? is the spark energy dropped stressing (heating up) the extra smaller coil during the 'drop', or going to ground somewhere else.
puzzling to me, electrical is not my thing. maybe do have a handle on points and mags, but question my thoughts on these issues as well. hahaha.
-joe
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The bucking coil destroys some of the EMF of the main coil and it is dissipated to ground.
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The bucking coil destroys some of the EMF of the main coil and it is dissipated to ground.
will try to get a handle on that thought above.
this thread has sidetracked way beyond a 'review' and 'bone stock'...... title maybe should read 'info thread'???
-joe
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Just found out that the 620p has a slope advance ignition and no limiter. This is where theyre getting their other 10%. Same flywheel as 600p, just a different module...$85.
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Im thinking about changing out the ignition. Echo offers both limited and non limited magnetos on their engines, hope to come up with something w/o spending alot of $. The 'digital' type seem to be the limited ones but the amount of advance is also a consideration. Current timing is; 11 degrees BTDC at 3k rpm, then 32 degrees BTDC at 8k rpm, which then drops one degree and stays at 31 degrees BTDC at 12k rpm. 13500 +/- 200 seems to be the magic number on the limiter.
......snipped from a few posts up.
seems like it has a quick slope from idle to 8K, and quite a bit of total advance. is this similar in most saws? have tried to put a my light on my husq., with poor results after about 5K rpm.
wish my laptop could 'read' the .pdf. if i update the adobe on this machine, will run out of memory due to update size.
good stuff bob!
-joe
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660...... tied to learn a bit about how the digital ignition operates. there is a ton of info out there on "ac-cdi"
after reading about it (rev limiting), for quite some time, your explanation sums it up the best.
-joe
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Just found out that the 620p has a slope advance ignition and no limiter. This is where theyre getting their other 10%. Same flywheel as 600p, just a different module...$85.
nice find. do you think that the slope and total advance differs as well?
-joe
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found some info on yamabiko's take on meeting emissions without resorting to strato air technology or cats.
mostly, deals with altering transfer port designs and scavenging efficiency.
whatever they choose to do, does meet the 2013, 300 hour emission standards for it's engine family: DEHXS, 0605EB.
it's slow reading, recent patent information: http://stks.freshpatents.com/Yamabiko-Corporation-nm1.php
(also found some power/bsfc numbers, but cannot open that .pdf on my machine).
regards
-joe
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put some time on the echo yesterday....... was volunteered to cut a few trees. 12" oak split over a shed, clumps of sumac, downed pines, and some of thorny thing.
-only things of note are, how LOUD this saw is stock. going through the oak slowed this thing down noticeably.
nothing further done to the carby yet. as is, won't win races in soft wood. but, holds rpms well in everything except oak.
-joe
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the numbers printed on the 590 coil:
CA1006
1302
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For the 620, I read somewhere that the bore and piston are a bit different than the 600. If it was factory ported, wouldn't there be a greater displacement volume than 60cc ? Unless the intake and exhaust ports were widened... Carb is different too...somewhere else i read said that the semi fixed jet is gone, but I didn't dig into walbros site to do the proper cross reference yet.
The rev limited ignition discussion above makes sense, when you keep backing out the high speed screw on the 600p to feed more fuel, there is a point where the engine doesn't really sound like it's increasing in speed. It revs up, then immediately backs off to what sounds like a default max speed.
I also want that opposing dawg on the clutch cover, but still can't tell if it's just a matter of buying one plus the screws and drilling it onto the 600 clutch cover. (edit) - part number 99988802100 is the correct, factory outside spike (dawg) for cs600p and cs590 .
We need someone to buy a 620 and do a basic tear down!
FYI, I gave the cs600p a pretty neutral and objective review on echo's (powerful saw, but I explained its design issues) and it got completely moderated out! I took screenshots of my review, and I'll post it here eventually.
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Just wanted to catalog the differences to the Echo cs-620p.
Different carb: Walbro HDA-316, 15.88mm Venturi with a 19.03mm throttle bore.
Different ignition: Slope Advance non limited ignition, 39 degrees advance BTDC at 12k rpm.
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Finally broke down and bought a like new one to test out today. Echo 590.
Just wanted to see what this bang for the buck 60cc is about.
Husky 2 series guy bought it new and didnt care for it and went back to the older huskys.
So worked out for me to get it from him to try out myself. Chain dont even look like it has ever been touched. Spur dont even look marked.
Pics coming later
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echo 590 pics and a pic of the cylinder I found
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That's a lotta saw for the $.
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red97 info to save
Stock ones do like 12,200-500.
Stock carb loves to feed the fuel, bout the same range as the 590 coil 13,500 max. Swear the coil was limited to 13,500. May be mistaken, could be 13,000.
Has a bypass, so it will not completely lean out, but it will scorch the saw over time. Aquired 2 of them like that.
Are these 45mm bore x 37mm stroke ? :o
awol stock info
590
EX 113/134
IN 103/154 or 77 from tdc
TR 128/104
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I've recommended the 590/600/620 series to a few folks looking to buy a new small/midsize firewood/farm saw for reasonable money. In that price range, you can't get anything close to it from 'The Big Two', and we don't have any real Dolkita dealers within 100 miles. Everyone has been happy with them so far......and you can even get the dang things from Home Depot...
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red97 Joe confirmed. 45mm bore with 37.6mm stroke. Unreal. :o
Joe = Stroke is actually 37.6 but yes really good candidate for a big bore.
The early 600's and maybe 620's have 38mm od bearings vs the std 6202 35mm that the later saws all share.
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Got 3 of the test 60cc saws together today. Going to try and run the same chain on all of them ( started making one square and dropped the rakers a tad). If not will pull new chains out of box, as I think I have lgx in 70 and 72. These 3 70 right now. Think only exl in 72.
These 2 stock. I just wanted to compare the 590 to the 3750. I have tested the 3750's to 036 262 saws in past. Friend has a 357 I could ask to borrow. No 361's here anymore.
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I been reading on folks complaining fines getting past their 590 air filters. Some said just use a o-ring on the throttle part or grease.
I looked at mine and yes there was some fines inside the air filter. Very slight. But I couldnt see where any had got intot the carb throat. But in my pea mind they could have and just not seen.
So I thought I would try 2 o-rings in places I seen that fines could possibility get by.
When in doubt use heavy grease etc too.
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Something I noticed once both saws was ready to use. 20" lamatied bars D176 and K041 and same chains on both. Both filled with mix and oil. The 590 felt bigger and heavier. So grabbed a digital scale. I dont know how much each holds on mix and bar oil. But came out like I felt in my hands. 18.2lbs 590 and 16.8lbs 3750 ready to use.
I bet the 590 torque wise will be a beast in the cuts even at the lower rpm with its stroke.
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Since 3750 is sold. I ran and checked tune in ash. Perfect for my area and my mix.
Storm came in before I could test run right behind it with same chain on 590. It's ready as soon as the weather clears again.
Just ran the 590 with same chain. Firewood round sized poulan feels better in cuts. With 20" buried on dawgs just a little the 590 has the torque advantage. Which I figured from get go.
Both were dry ash
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I couldnt stand the factory tune that the stops allowed me. Pulled them both for fine tuning today. Much better in the cuts now too.
It had a slight bog at transition I couldn't stand. I couldnt open the L up any further due to the stop tab. All better now.
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Waiting on the videos.......easy to mod the carb on the cs 590 i was happy how it cut stock.....i also fine tuned it pulled the limiters....it was boggy and did not accelerate right till I opened the low a lil... also and the high....
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For last year videos of testing a 54cc 60cc poulans and a 036 and later a 262 in poulan board. I aint into videos much.
But if someone records todays testing at little gtg you might get lucky. But the 3750 badboy is gone to new home already.
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Echo was already scored and pulling 140psi when it was ran this day. We didnt know that at the time.
The test wood was right in the echo 590 strong point. Bigger wood. Little 357xp 56.5cc had a heck of a cut when I ran it. I never bogged it during the cut like I was most times. Eric Nicol was making the fastest cuts 99% of the time.
The ash was 16" wide and started at 14" tall and ended up 16" tall by 16" wide. So is what it is. Wood got bigger as we went so times would get slower. I told Eric this is why I use cants to test with back when I cared about such. In the end I said they all cut wood and and the wood never complains if it takes a few seconds longer in the cuts. The OE m-tronic 362 impressed me the most. But no way would I ever pay a new asking price for one.
Eric Nicol thank you so much for the nice sized testing wood and the big bar testing wood you left for me too. The German beer is just how I remember them = very good. Wife tried it and said yep thats just how she remembered it out of those big glasses when she was there.
(((((((Eric Nicol posting Results are in on the 60cc saw comparison the cuts was in 14” ash but ended up being 16” at the finish so some of the times could’ve should’ve been a little quicker but it is what it is starting with fastest time Stihl 362 - 14.50 Husqvarna 357xp - 16.22 Echo cs590 - 16.37 my Poulan 380 - 18.19 Kevin’s 380 - 21.50 huztl 036 - 22.19 Dolmar 120 - 33.39 but the Dolmar had some issues so I’m sure it would have done better..overall a great day with good people))))))))
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Pics of the nice test log EN left me too. The one end is over 32" across in first pic. Perfect for the bigger saw testing I do before sending saws back out.
Others too
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Looks like a lot of fun, wish I was there.
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May pull the muffler today. I read enough to see these really wake up afterwords.
Might do before and after in square wood to see what was gained % wise.
Somewhere between these 2 muffler mods is what I am thinking.
https://youtu.be/JmOx8jfUUgg
https://youtu.be/pahXpy6Pbms
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Andre aka andyshine has a good video for removing the limiter caps. The guy I got it from had no clue how to do it. This shows how easy. I didnt remove the carb to do it myself. I just removed the rubber piece that goes in for keeping dust out at the carb tuning area.
https://youtu.be/A6pdV-SxWl0
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Glad I pulled muffler for modding today after testing in the 8x8 with stock lgx nib chain. Dang piston must have scored from being to lean with the epa plastic stop. If I recall right I fattened it up as far as I could go when I got it and then pulled the stops this weekend. So saw is NOT for sale at this time. EN still was pulling 140psi and still runs fine.
What I went with for mm. I still went ahead and did the after video as it set even with the scoring and 140psi. Need to load the before and after videos after this.
P021038790 PISTON KIT https://echoinc.partsmartweb.com/scripts/EmpartISAPI.dll?MF
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Before after with scored piston and 140psi
https://youtu.be/0PNTXcwVXXo
https://youtu.be/rZLBQ-Alq3c
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Going off videos uploaded to puter HD.
Before with carb stops removed. 3.25 2.94 2.90
After muffler mod. 2.84 2.78 2.75
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590 piston kit and gasket ordered. Thanks Nate.
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Sorry to hear about the scored piston.....I check mine on even brand new saws now before i run them.....especially if i buy off ebay new.....good videos........you going to juswt clean up the piston and put ne rings on it?
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Sorry to hear about the scored piston.....I check mine on even brand new saws now before i run them.....especially if i buy off ebay new.....good videos........you going to juswt clean up the piston and put ne rings on it?
Cylinder will clean up. Piston I could have. But being I was going to sell this saw. Ordered new piston kit and base gasket from Nate.
Anyone know what the norm is on psi on these stock with base gasket in? Have pics of tear down that I will load tomorrow. Like the cylinder design.
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No idea i have been without a compression gauge for a long while now.... i kinda go by how they feel and try to always look at any piston through the muffler when i buy a saw even new.....makes me feel better.....How much of a muffler mod did you do i only cut out the top deflector and left the muffler hole stock ...will be looking forward to seeing your tear down....Sorry to hear it was scored ......there was a guy in another part of florida i seen his tree srvc they are a bigger one and he said he was blowing them up or his crew was......it was on one of the FB chainsaw sites maybe even yours.....?think it was tree doctors? making me glad i set mine so rich for break in....
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...How much of a muffler mod did you do i only cut out the top deflector and left the muffler hole stock ...will be looking forward to seeing your tear down....Sorry to hear it was scored ......there was a guy in another part of florida i seen his tree srvc they are a bigger one and he said he was blowing them up or his crew was......it was on one of the FB chainsaw sites maybe even yours.....?think it was tree doctors? making me glad i set mine so rich for break in....
Last page I showed the muffler mod I did with pics.
Showed 2 videos first of min and max mm. I went with a in between those 2. I did open up the back side bypassing tube.
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First echo 590 I have tore into. Interesting lay out. Had to pull tank to get to the t27 bolts for intake boot. If I had a small 90 degree could have done it without pulling tank down. Is there a easier way?
Also what is the normal psi on these? This one was pulling 140psi and ran pretty dang good still. I never pulled the muffler till yesterday to muffler mod. So could have been scored from being to lean since I got it from owner that bought it new. I just pulled the plastic stops last weekend to fine tune it. Domed piston. Like the cylinder layout too.
few pics showing
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Note to self. Pull intake boot and cylinder as a whole. My brain fart yesterday. Thanks Joe.
collar 10 V356000440
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The plug was perfect colored when pulled from saw too. Also what makes me think it happened before I got it. Dont matter now, is what it is.
echo 590 piston specs per Nate POE website https://performance-outdoor-equipment.myshopify.com/products/echo-piston-kit-p021038790
Echo Piston Kit P021038790
pin diameter= 11mm
width between pin bosses=17.54mm
total height of piston= 40.85mm
compression height=24.85-5.5=19.35mm
ring thickness= 1.5mm
total height of piston=42mm
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ouch that hurts to look at....why i pull the muffler on every saw i buy before i do anything....i seriously doubt you did that in the short time you had it.... think im going to pop my muffler off and take another peek it was perfect when i bought it.... thats on the exhaust side mostly right? so it would not be from ingesting fines? Man thats a ruff looking piston.....the 3.7 i have that i said is lightly scored looks mint compared to that.....Sorry to see that.... great pics and write up... thanks for all you do.....
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Andre aka andyshine has a good video for removing the limiter caps. The guy I got it from had no clue how to do it. This shows how easy. I didnt remove the carb to do it myself. I just removed the rubber piece that goes in for keeping dust out at the carb tuning area.
I just did the deflector like his in top video.....
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SN not following what your saying. You pulled the deflector apart? What did you do to the muffler itself?
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I left the muffler be as i read a few people said all they did was the deflector... and i felt it ran decent with just adjust the carb ... so i removed the internal baffle on the deflector and left everything else stock at least till i run it awhile....now on my cs 490 i did the deflector and removed the tube.....the timber wolf was good enough stock so i did a very modest mod on it....and tuned it pretty rich and run 40-1 redarmor in it.....if i feel the need i will cut out more in the future ....some people said they did nothing but retune them ...I like to go a step at a time ....I still have not done a mod on my cs 271t just retuned the carb and its running pretty good mind you it see's palm frongs most of the time....it filters better and clears the fibers out from tyhe clutch area better then the cs 2511....
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Want to say Thanks to Nate at POE. That was super fast. P arrived today and installed.
Just fired it off. Learned alot about the 590 while in there and I like the build. Only thing I didnt do was split the crankcases yet on these to see whats in there bearing etc wise.
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wow that was fast......
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Saving some pics of crankcase I seen on bay to help the next guy what he needs to remember.
Joe said in CR-G the bearings were 6202
Outer dawg spike 99988802100
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Echo 590 600 620 oiler issues.
Few folks keep complaining about the oilers in the 590 etc in the chainsaw repair group not lasting even after buying new and replacing.
Just read this = Echo had an issue with the oil pump on the 590 600 620.
They had a spring in the oil pump that would catch the gear and lock the oil pump up. The oil pump has been revised updated with an improved part.
This happened to several CS590 saws and the issue was corrected with a washer on the new pumps.
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My 620 oil pump just failed suddenly and was fixed by the Echo dealer under warranty. I only had 15 tanks of gas through it. Oil was working at one fire wood cutting session then no flow several months later. The saw is built in 2017 and purchased March of 2019 then fixed 3-16-20. I hope I got the washer on it now.
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Edit, purchased March of 2018