Chainsaw Repair

How To Basics - Carb Fixes + Mods - IPL and Service Manuals => How To Basics and Fixes => Topic started by: KilliansRedLeo on May 03, 2014, 01:18:45 pm

Title: Muffler paint
Post by: KilliansRedLeo on May 03, 2014, 01:18:45 pm
I have been trying a new paint on the mufflers I modify. It is called High-Temp Silicone Coating and is by DEI   (Design Engineering Inc) 1500° protection you can get it at auto parts stores in the performance isle. Runs about $11 a can and goes a long way, I am still on the first can and have painted 9-10 mufflers with it.

It dries to the touch in about 15 minutes, you then heat it in a 400° oven for 1 hour to fully cure. Does not stink in the oven either.

Was using everything from grill paint (chit) to an industrial coating of resin, accelerator and powered nickel that Alsled introduced me to, worked great but very expensive, so now I am trying this stuff.

What do the rest of you use?
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: aclarke on May 03, 2014, 03:24:36 pm
Any ideas on a paint that is alky nitro proof?   VHT works good on gasoline burners
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: Cut4fun . on May 03, 2014, 04:06:33 pm
I just use BBQ hi temp paint IF I paint a muffler.

Adam what about power coating the mufflers?
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: KilliansRedLeo on May 03, 2014, 05:07:40 pm
Great idea Kevin, I had never thought of it to tell you the truth!!! I will check locally to see what it would cost.
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: Cut4fun . on May 03, 2014, 05:21:15 pm
I have been trying a new paint on the mufflers I modify. It is called High-Temp Silicone Coating and is by DEI   (Design Engineering Inc) 1500° protection you can get it at auto parts stores in the performance isle. Runs about $11 a can and goes a long way, I am still on the first can and have painted 9-10 mufflers with it.

It dries to the touch in about 15 minutes, you then heat it in a 400° oven for 1 hour to fully cure. Does not stink in the oven either.



Thats stuff sounds hard to beat for the cost for gas saws.  But how is it holding up to use and weather (wet cold  then use etc over and over)? 

Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: KilliansRedLeo on May 03, 2014, 06:57:28 pm
Don't really know yet as none of the saws have come back for service.
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: 3000 FPS on May 04, 2014, 06:00:17 pm
I just use high temp flat black paint from the automotive parts store.   I usually sand blast them first to clean them inside and out before painting.   I always spray them inside and out also.
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: countryhog on May 04, 2014, 06:12:59 pm
i use the same thing 3000 uses cept i clean mine with a wire bruch attachement on the grinder. kinda scrape and hand brush the inside. i do paint all exposed surfaces though. let it air dry and put it on. sometimes i use flat black and sometimes gloss. haven't decided yet which i like better
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: brokenbudget on May 04, 2014, 06:59:43 pm
I use the vht stuff. holds up well if properly heat cured. follow the instructions and it's pretty tuff. I do the in the oven curing. I use the flat black. it has sort of a powdery satin look to it until you burnish it after curing. looks almost like a stock finish.
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: farmboy on May 05, 2014, 04:26:29 pm
I remove all rust etc.  Wipe down w/lacquer thinner paint w/Rusteolum Rust Reformer which kills any rust and seal muffler.  Let dry overnight wipe down w/clean cloth then paint w/Rusteoleum Ultra grill paint Satin finish.  Bake @ 350 for 1 or more hrs time depends on whether or not I forget it.  They have been holding up better than anything else I've tried.  Last one that dropprd back by is on a Husky 359 been out for4 mo still looks like I just put it on.
Shep
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: sharkey on May 05, 2014, 06:26:29 pm
Ive used the black header paint from NAPA, it seems to hold up ok.  It might actually be a rustoleum product.   
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: Cut4fun . on May 05, 2014, 06:46:06 pm
w/Rusteoleum Ultra grill paint Satin finish.    They have been holding up better than anything else I've tried.  Last one that dropprd back by is on a Husky 359 been out for4 mo still looks like I just put it on.
Shep

I think that is what I went to and painted the Wild Thing 505 muffler with.  Need to check. 
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: Al Smith on May 06, 2014, 07:40:01 pm
What would happen if you used old fashion stove black? I know back in the day you could doctor up a sheet metal pot belly stove that would glow red and it took a long time to burn the lamp black off . Fact I do my insert once a year with it .
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: 660magnum on May 06, 2014, 08:25:27 pm
What would happen if you used old fashion stove black? I know back in the day you could doctor up a sheet metal pot belly stove that would glow red and it took a long time to burn the lamp black off . Fact I do my insert once a year with it .
I think you just said it all - "Fact I do my insert once a year with it (stove black)"
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: farmboy on May 07, 2014, 08:59:45 am
I'm so satisfied with Rust Reformer this spring, summer, fall going to do my wood stove with it.  Painted my work bench top with it 6-7 yrs ago top us still in excellent shape except for the ring where I had a small container of muratic sitting.
Shep
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: Cut4fun . on May 07, 2014, 02:46:46 pm
w/Rusteoleum Ultra grill paint Satin finish.    They have been holding up better than anything else I've tried.  Last one that dropprd back by is on a Husky 359 been out for4 mo still looks like I just put it on.
Shep

I think that is what I went to and painted the Wild Thing 505 muffler with.  Need to check. 

I'm so satisfied with Rust Reformer this spring, summer, fall going to do my wood stove with it.  Painted my work bench top with it 6-7 yrs ago top us still in excellent shape except for the ring where I had a small container of muratic sitting.
Shep

Yep thats what it is, just thought to check while walking through barn.

 I'm real happy with it too and I dont do near the preparation you are doing.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81PwP3lSrEL._SL1500_.jpg
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: Al Smith on May 07, 2014, 09:25:14 pm
I've used the Rusteoleum on the gas grill before .Fact I've used a lot of their paint on a lot of things .Good stuff .
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: Cut4fun . on May 13, 2014, 03:06:43 pm
Adam if not powder coating.  Maybe this stuff will hold up to alky?  http://www.por15.com/BLACK-VELVET_p_50.html

I had it on a modded cover once and it held up great to heat etc. 

 BLACK VELVET is the only black paint capable of withstanding extreme temperatures up to 1200F. This high temp paint will maintain a rich black color and won't burn off. Can be used on all cars, domestic or foreign, and it meets or exceeds properties and requirements of MIL-C-13370. Can be brushed or sprayed.



GENERAL INSTRUCTIONS FOR USING POR-20,
BRILLIANT ALUMINUM, FACTORY MANIFOLD GRAY,
AND BLACK VELVET HEAT RESISTANT PAINTS.
General Information:
POR-20, FACTORY MANIFOLD
GRAY, and BLACK VELVET are designed for use on steel
subject to elevated temperatures. The recommended
application is two coats applied directly to properly
prepared steel. These products will dry to the touch and
can be easily handled afterward, but will remain relatively
soft until exposed to heat over 300 degrees Fahrenheit
(150
o
C). They may be susceptible to mechanical damage,
but are unaffected by moderate term weather exposure.
Avoid touching surface to be painted because natural oils in
skin will interfere with proper adhesion.
Surface Preparation
: Steel surfaces must be dry and
cleaned of dirt, oils, rust, and other contaminants. For top
performance and service, the best preparation is abrasive
sand blasting. Stainless steel surfaces should be given
a sweep-blast, or otherwise be mechanically abraded to
create a surface profi le which will give improved bonding.
Surgical-type gloves should be worn for handling to keep
natural body oils off the prepared surface.
Spray Application
: Reduce, if necessary, up to 1 part
POR-15® Solvent to 8 parts Heat Resistant paints. For
Best Results: Two thin covering coats are recommended.
Any sagging or running indicates that application is too
heavy. Allow paint to set for 24 hours on the surface before
temperature is raised. When applying two coats, allow the
fi rst coat to air dry 24 hours at 75
O
F (22
O
C) before
recoating. Avoid going over the same area again after it has
been painted. Alternately, the second coat may be applied
after the fi rst coat has been subjected to a surface
temperature of 400
O
F (205
O
C)and then allowed to cool  down
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: aclarke on May 13, 2014, 03:25:17 pm
Kev, I appreciate the link, I'll give it a try!  Thank you...
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: KilliansRedLeo on May 13, 2014, 04:01:43 pm
I have used the POR15, it works GREAT, and does everything it says it does but $$$$$$$!
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: farmboy on May 14, 2014, 08:12:28 am
I have used the POR15, it works GREAT, and does everything it says it does but $$$$$$$!
Cost is why I haven't even tried it.  Always heard positive review on the products.  Would like to try it tho.
Shep
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: KilliansRedLeo on May 14, 2014, 09:20:27 am
It is a two part system that you mix. 3M also makes a three part system, a resin, hardner and powered nickel. Lots of the race snowmobile guys use it because it is High Temp, does not burn off and the nickel stops surfaces from rusting. Also very expensive. When I run out of the DEI stuff I am using, going to try your method!
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: KilliansRedLeo on May 25, 2014, 08:19:44 am
I have been doing some muffler experiments and thought I would also test some different paints. As said earlier I tried DEI high temp from an auto parts store, then went to Home Despot to get tire rust reformer and grill paint Shep uses, whilst there I noticed Rustoleum HT automotive paint so got a can of that. So far on the five mufflers I am working with I have this to report.

DEI as applied it provides a slightly burnished appearance. More than one light coat is necessary to get good coverage. Must be baked on @400° for 30 minutes to fully cure. If you aren't meticulous in your prep it will flake off.

Rust Reformer works great

Rustoleum HT automotive flat black when cured for 30 minutes @250°. Two light coats for good coverage.

Grill paint, have not tried it yet.
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: 1manband on May 25, 2014, 09:54:11 am
when i have checked muffler temps in the past, do not remember a temp being over about 180F after about 15 to 20 minutes run time.

although i cannot measure the temp accurately between the cylinder side of muffler, assume it would be higher.

have a willow that will be coming down tomorrow, will measure some temps when saws are running for extended times with a fluke IR thermometer.

most of the automotive engine block/intake paints are good for 350F or 500F.  maybe they would cost less?

-joe
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: 1manband on May 28, 2014, 05:02:13 pm
cut down willow memorial day.  turned into a project involving a jeep, chains and cables.  brought the temp guage outside but forgot about it.

used it for chicken and turkey on the grill, however.  birds ran about 185.

will get some when bucking it up.

-joe
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: 1manband on May 31, 2014, 08:53:34 pm
took some temp readings on the upper portion of muffler today.
echo cs-590

bucking 12 to 18 inch logs
@ cold =76.5 F
@ 5 minutes = 443.4 F
@ 7 minutes = 402.5 F
@ 10 min. = 430.3 F
@ 12 min. = 455.8 F
-----------------------------------------
chain was now sharpened.
bar buried in 18 inch + wood
@ cold = 81.5
@ 2 min. = 479.0
@ 4 min. = 475.5
@ 6 min. = 450.2
@ 8 min. = 450.5
@ 10 min. = 410.3

running tad rich, dark insulator.

higher temps than expected.

-joe




Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: 3000 FPS on May 31, 2014, 09:10:11 pm
Heck I like the readings you took.   Gives me more of a real world idea of what exhaust temps are.
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: 660magnum on May 31, 2014, 09:42:00 pm
They are a lot higher than I imagined. Sounds like it was a CAT muffler.
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: 1manband on June 01, 2014, 06:16:16 am
from what was told, don't believe it has a typical cat muffler.

an interesting find that showed up during the temp readings, was the amount of temperature drop in the muffler as the saw was idled down.  went down almost 50 degrees almost immediately. 

the above temp readings had to be taken very quickly, to be accurate.

another interesting thing was how quickly the temps went up from cold.  it was like an large initial spike, as the saw was loaded as time went on, the temperature dropped.  hard to tell by what i wrote down, but that was the case.

to get an idea of how much load on the saw there was during the 22 minutes of runtime the saw had, it burned almost 3/4 of a tank of fuel.  60cc saw.

-joe
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: 660magnum on June 01, 2014, 09:19:29 am
Those temperatures are much higher than what would be safe for the engine if they were cylinder head temperatures.
Title: Re: Muffler paint
Post by: brokenbudget on June 01, 2014, 09:55:34 am
muffler/header temps are always far hotter than what you'll see from the head.
ever watch a truck pull from close up? take a look at the header the next time one of those pass by you when your sitting there ;) they go from red to orange to yellow to damn near white. you'd swear you can practically see the exhaust port through the header.