Chainsaw Repair

Husqvarna - Stihl - Poulan - Jonsered - Dolmar chainsaws and more => Dolmar Makita => Topic started by: mweba on May 11, 2014, 12:59:37 pm

Title: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: mweba on May 11, 2014, 12:59:37 pm
Picked up a runner yesterday.  The saw came with a copy of the manual and IPL so when time allows, a digital copy will be made and linked.

Not new to rotary engines but this is certainly not the liquid cooled version I'm use to.  Will add the things I learn while getting her back to top running condition here. 

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5490/13974967140_d2b0e0ce10_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nhVmRj)IMG_20140510_220846713 (https://flic.kr/p/nhVmRj) by mweba1 (https://www.flickr.com/people/65492307@N04/), on Flickr
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/mweba1/13974956227" title="IMG_20140510_222745385 by Mitch WEBER, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7332/13974956227_406da796e6_c.jpg" width="800" height="450" alt="IMG_20140510_222745385"></a>

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7332/13974956227_406da796e6_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nhViBa)IMG_20140510_222745385 (https://flic.kr/p/nhViBa) by mweba1 (https://www.flickr.com/people/65492307@N04/), on Flickr
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/mweba1/13974843749" title="Kms-4 by Mitch WEBER, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7306/13974843749_8c68051c1a_c.jpg" width="800" height="450" alt="Kms-4"></a>

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7452/14161708034_535d89510f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nzqspU)IMG_20140510_222752414 (https://flic.kr/p/nzqspU) by mweba1 (https://www.flickr.com/people/65492307@N04/), on Flickr
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/mweba1/13974841999" title="Kms-4 by Mitch WEBER, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7305/13974841999_1d3d4f5e57_c.jpg" width="800" height="450" alt="Kms-4"></a>

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7306/13974843749_8c68051c1a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nhUJaT)Kms-4 (https://flic.kr/p/nhUJaT) by mweba1 (https://www.flickr.com/people/65492307@N04/), on Flickr
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/mweba1/14138342456" title="Kms-4 by Mitch WEBER, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2932/14138342456_98a0998d69_c.jpg" width="800" height="450" alt="Kms-4"></a>

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7449/14181597413_0508e2b4cc_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nBboQe)Kms-4 (https://flic.kr/p/nBboQe) by mweba1 (https://www.flickr.com/people/65492307@N04/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7305/13974841999_1d3d4f5e57_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nhUHDH)Kms-4 (https://flic.kr/p/nhUHDH) by mweba1 (https://www.flickr.com/people/65492307@N04/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7374/13974856747_88c2b8ec42_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nhUN2Z)Kms-4 (https://flic.kr/p/nhUN2Z) by mweba1 (https://www.flickr.com/people/65492307@N04/), on Flickr

(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2932/14138342456_98a0998d69_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nxmGD7)Kms-4 (https://flic.kr/p/nxmGD7) by mweba1 (https://www.flickr.com/people/65492307@N04/), on Flickr

(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2932/14161514235_89f7634076_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nzpsNx)Kms-4 (https://flic.kr/p/nzpsNx) by mweba1 (https://www.flickr.com/people/65492307@N04/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7451/13974853317_304cdf9fea_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nhUM1R)Kms-4 (https://flic.kr/p/nhUM1R) by mweba1 (https://www.flickr.com/people/65492307@N04/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: Cut4fun . on May 11, 2014, 01:05:01 pm
Nice that right there is a cool find. 

You going to test run then sell on bay for big $$$$ or keep for the collection?

Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: mweba on May 11, 2014, 01:07:19 pm
Nice that right there is a cool find. 

You going to test run then sell on bay for big $$$$ or keep for the collection?



This may be a keeper.  Who knows what the future will bring but for now, I'm super happy to have it.
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: fordfairlane78 on May 12, 2014, 02:18:39 am
Man that is cool! This has to be the golden goose of chainsaw collecting I would think.
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: Chainsawr on May 12, 2014, 06:35:31 am
NICE!

It took us years to find ours.  Very cool saw.
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: mweba on May 12, 2014, 08:36:49 am
Thanks guys.  I'm very happy to have it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JRM_GO4DkE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JRM_GO4DkE)
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: Cut4fun . on May 12, 2014, 01:18:01 pm
Awesome video Mitch.

Whats the story on the find?  How you came across it. 

The hunt for certain saws is what I like now days.
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: mweba on May 12, 2014, 02:33:55 pm
Awesome video Mitch.

Whats the story on the find?  How you came across it. 

The hunt for certain saws is what I like now days.

Well, this saw was brought to my attention by Nathan (Black Dog Chainsaw/Nstueve)  on Craigslist as "chainsaw", my search didn't find it.  Called the gentleman and talked for a bit, realizing he would never ship the saw, knew I had a chance.  We came to an agreement on price and schedule for pickup and he held his word.  285 miles later I pull onto an old acreage with plenty  of "stuff" collected.  Guy was in his eighties and looked rather skinny/frail but accompanied by a sharp wit. 

Asked him if it ran and his response "Said it did, didn't I"  with a grin.  "You do know what it is, don't you"  I said Yes, well aware of the find.  "Good he says, we won't have to wrestle on the price then"     Turned out he purchased the saw and had it shipped in 1978 to his residence in Nebraska and always knew it was a saw not to wear out.  Last year he came down with lung cancer (reason for the frail look) and is cleaning out so his kids don't have to do it all.  We walked around his shop for a bit looking at old wood lathes while telling each other politically incorrect jokes.  At one point he said "Hell, anything in here is for sale"  to which I replied "How much for the eighties pin up girls".  Almost before I finished the sentence he said "NOT FOR SALE" 

Wife and I both wish we had more time with the guy but the time didn't allow. 
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: Cut4fun . on May 12, 2014, 02:39:35 pm
Awesome video Mitch.

Whats the story on the find?  How you came across it. 

The hunt for certain saws is what I like now days.

Well, this saw was brought to my attention by Nathan (Black Dog Chainsaw/Nstueve)  on Craigslist as "chainsaw", my search didn't find it.  Called the gentleman and talked for a bit, realizing he would never ship the saw, knew I had a chance.  We came to an agreement on price and schedule for pickup and he held his word.  285 miles later I pull onto an old acreage with plenty  of "stuff" collected.  Guy was in his eighties and looked rather skinny/frail but accompanied by a sharp wit. 

Asked him if it ran and his response "Said it did, didn't I"  with a grin.  "You do know what it is, don't you"  I said Yes, well aware of the find.  "Good he says, we won't have to wrestle on the price then"     Turned out he purchased the saw and had it shipped in 1978 to his residence in Nebraska and always knew it was a saw not to wear out.  Last year he came down with lung cancer (reason for the frail look) and is cleaning out so his kids don't have to do it all.  We walked around his shop for a bit looking at old wood lathes while telling each other politically incorrect jokes.  At one point he said "Hell, anything in here is for sale"  to which I replied "How much for the eighties pin up girls".  Almost before I finished the sentence he said "NOT FOR SALE" 

Wife and I both wish we had more time with the guy but the time didn't allow. 

Very cool story. 

I love talking to folks with history of tells to tell.  Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: mweba on May 16, 2014, 09:31:32 am
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7391/14195393045_e34640255e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nCp6MX)_20140515_201626 (https://flic.kr/p/nCp6MX) by mweba1 (https://www.flickr.com/people/65492307@N04/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7385/14195391975_a050f3a70b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nCp6tv)KMS breakin (https://flic.kr/p/nCp6tv) by mweba1 (https://www.flickr.com/people/65492307@N04/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: mweba on May 16, 2014, 09:42:39 am
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5521/14195215931_9092a4f4a5_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nCoc9g)IMG_20140515_201832291 (https://flic.kr/p/nCoc9g) by mweba1 (https://www.flickr.com/people/65492307@N04/), on Flickr

(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2937/14195215501_7054359c34_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nCoc1R)IMG_20140515_201851718 (https://flic.kr/p/nCoc1R) by mweba1 (https://www.flickr.com/people/65492307@N04/), on Flickr

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Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: farmboy on May 16, 2014, 12:19:51 pm
Is there an Award for Super Cool post?  If so it gets my vote.  Awesome story!!!  Thank You very much Mitch.
Shep
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: mweba on May 16, 2014, 01:09:35 pm
Is there an Award for Super Cool post?  If so it gets my vote.  Awesome story!!!  Thank You very much Mitch.
Shep

Half way home I'd wish to have taken a picture with him and the saw.  Unfortunately, He isn't long for this world and may be one of the most memorable purchases I've had.
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: sharkey on May 16, 2014, 06:21:10 pm
Amazing find and fantastic story.  The literature is just over the top.  Thanks for the pics of those documents.  Did Ducati do the castings?
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: 166 on May 16, 2014, 11:20:55 pm
Nice KMS-4 I have a few (6) of those around. 8) You have the first one I've seen that has the hand guard unbolted a lot of them were broken off.
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: mweba on May 17, 2014, 10:21:52 am
Nice KMS-4 I have a few (6) of those around. 8) You have the first one I've seen that has the hand guard unbolted a lot of them were broken off.

I asked about the guard, he stated it never had one.   So I don't know any thing past that. 

Have watched your run on the YTube many times, they sound great.  Mine is set fat for obvious reasons, after five tanks through it (not difficult to do) I may lean her out a bit.
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: 3000 FPS on May 17, 2014, 10:41:14 pm
Well without a doubt the saw is very cool.   

I also liked that you posted the manuals so that I could see the parts break down, and I got to see it run.


Thanks for taking the time.
Roger.
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: 166 on May 18, 2014, 12:57:23 am
Nice KMS-4 I have a few (6) of those around. 8) You have the first one I've seen that has the hand guard unbolted a lot of them were broken off.

I asked about the guard, he stated it never had one.   So I don't know any thing past that. 

Have watched your run on the YTube many times, they sound great.  Mine is set fat for obvious reasons, after five tanks through it (not difficult to do) I may lean her out a bit.

Does it look like the hand guard was ever bolted in? These saws do like to drink fuel! It seems you get them warmed up and make a few cuts and they are out of gas. Only other thing I see missing is the serial number tag but they are just a sticker that didn't stay on the greatest.

I have the same derby paperwork that came with the brand new in box one I have.

Steve
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: mweba on May 18, 2014, 09:35:25 am
Steve

It appears to me that the guard was never present.  The threads show no signs of use and no markings exist for surface wear from the it being attached.  The owner stated it did not come with one but we all know how accurate some memories can be.

Fuel, yes, lots of it.  Dropped two trees with it yesterday using about 3/4 tank of fuel.    Brings me back to my RX-7's.  Sure liked the fuel.

Mitch
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: mweba on May 18, 2014, 09:38:29 am
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2905/14209645181_9f9f11cfe9_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nDE9sr)Kms4 (https://flic.kr/p/nDE9sr) by mweba1 (https://www.flickr.com/people/65492307@N04/), on Flickr

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5279/14026283078_5d6619c7db_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nnsnhS)Kms4 (https://flic.kr/p/nnsnhS) by mweba1 (https://www.flickr.com/people/65492307@N04/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: Bitburger on May 23, 2014, 11:38:15 pm
Very Very nice KMS4, looks awesome.
Haven't seen such a good one for ages!

And the story behind, I would say it is somehow "great" but also a quite moving, tough stuff and also kind of sad!
But the "happy end" would be if you keep it in your collection till you are in your eighties as well,
always remembering that guy when telling someone the story of your "Wankel"!

The prices exploded here in Europe, about 1300 Dollar is already a common price for a crappy one.
The "problem" is that nowadays everybody wants it. Technically it is one of the worst Dolmar the brand has ever released,
and as "mitigating circumstances" it was actually Fichtel&Sachs that wanted that saw to be produced, being totally in the rotary concept at that time and just having bought Dolmar in 1975. It was also built by Fichtel&Sachs in Schweinfurt, not by the Dolmar main quarters in Hamburg!

So, two big pieces of history unified in one saw now sitting on your shelf  8)
Thanks for such a great thread!

Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: mweba on May 27, 2014, 12:50:15 pm
Prices seam to be steady here as well. ranging from 700 for non runners to 1500 in good condition.


Saving this bit of literature found in another thread.

 (https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2898/14283638384_9e221499e7_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nLco4j)75wankel (https://flic.kr/p/nLco4j) by mweba1 (https://www.flickr.com/people/65492307@N04/), on Flickr

Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: Cut4fun on May 27, 2014, 01:27:56 pm
What was the years made on these? Noticed they had already started pushing 50:1 mix in the ad.
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: adam32 on May 27, 2014, 05:12:56 pm
Such an awesome saw and story! I would love to get a rotary Dolmar.
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: 166 on May 28, 2014, 11:10:23 pm
Last 2 KMS-4's I got cost me $300 - $400 each! And one of those was on regular ebay auction.
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: mweba on May 28, 2014, 11:18:10 pm
Last 2 KMS-4's I got cost me $300 - $400 each! And one of those was on regular ebay auction.

Wow.

The 166 price has risen in the same way.  Six years ago, 350-550 was the norm.  Now 1400 isn't uncommon.  I did pay a fair price for this one but not ebay extortion.
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: mweba on May 28, 2014, 11:20:18 pm
I'm certainly no expert on the subject, Cuttin.  Production of 75 is the most common reference but have read that it lead into 76.  Info is scarce and subject to to source.....
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: jcsmith on May 29, 2014, 10:10:36 am
Very cool saw. Has been on my wish list for a while. At todays prices , it will stay on wish list.  I wonder what the original purchase price was when new. Paint looks real nice too.Also wonder how many were produced. 

                                                                                                        Chris
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: bac0697 on June 02, 2014, 08:42:38 am
Hi all,

I'm new to forum. I have just purchased Dolmar KMS-4 very similar to the on on the pics and I have a problem with it.

It runs and cuts, I believe it shows all it's power, but after a few minutes stops working and it seems to me, like it would overheat. After 30 minutes or so, it runs again. Any ideas what could be wrong?

BR
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: mweba on June 02, 2014, 09:21:47 am
Hi all,

I'm new to forum. I have just purchased Dolmar KMS-4 very similar to the on on the pics and I have a problem with it.

It runs and cuts, I believe it shows all it's power, but after a few minutes stops working and it seems to me, like it would overheat. After 30 minutes or so, it runs again. Any ideas what could be wrong?

BR

Is the saw losing spark?  A common symptom of the ignition failing can be when the saw gets warm spark is lost.

No matter the issue, be careful with her.  Not to many around anymore.
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: bac0697 on June 02, 2014, 09:25:30 am
Hi mbewa,

yes, it could be, I didn't check yet which spark is inside.

If I saw right in Manual on the web (it's a poor picture) I have to buy Bosch WMA 225 T6 - electrode gap "020"? I'll try and let you know.
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: bac0697 on June 09, 2014, 07:42:58 am
Unfortunatly it wasn't a spark. It still works only until it gets really hot   :'(.

I was at local repair store and mechanic said, that it is probably ignition coil and that he didn't see any for years.

Since I'm not a collector, I am willing to sell it. For more info, send me Private message.

BR
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: mweba on June 09, 2014, 08:56:06 am
Unfortunatly it wasn't a spark. It still works only until it gets really hot   :'(.

I was at local repair store and mechanic said, that it is probably ignition coil and that he didn't see any for years.

Since I'm not a collector, I am willing to sell it. For more info, send me Private message.

BR

You misunderstood, the ignition was exactly what I meant.  Unfortunately, a coil will be near impossible to find. 

Good luck.
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: bac0697 on June 09, 2014, 09:14:41 am
 ;D

Thank's again!
Title: kms pics
Post by: 1manband on October 04, 2014, 11:29:42 am
ran one only for a few seconds.  truely unique feel.  easy starting/low vibes.
Title: Re: kms pics
Post by: Cut4fun . on October 04, 2014, 11:58:04 am
Thats one I havent ran yet.   Nice pics.   

Which GTG? Betting he has to do with member 166 and his brothers gtg.
Title: Re: kms pics
Post by: 1manband on October 04, 2014, 12:19:45 pm
Thats one I havent ran yet.   Nice pics.   

Which GTG? Betting he has to do with member 166 and his brothers gtg.

believe these are a combination steve's, scott's and lee's.  from lee's gtg.

hard to get a pic of steve, he's usually behind his own camera.

was told that a japanese manufacturer made a whole line of wankel's years ago in varying displacements.
Title: Re: kms pics
Post by: 166 on October 04, 2014, 04:59:28 pm
The 3 KMS4's with the shorter bars are ours. The one in the left rear with the 20" Dolmar bar is Lee's and the one I'm running is Tom Hawkins.

Yanmar produced a rotary saw as well.
Title: Re: kms pics
Post by: 166 on October 04, 2014, 05:49:58 pm
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee200/dolmar166/STEVEN-PC/09-28-2014%20Lee_s%202014%20GTG/09-28-2014Lees2014GTGWankels_zpsbc2cea6e.jpg) (http://s233.photobucket.com/user/dolmar166/media/STEVEN-PC/09-28-2014%20Lee_s%202014%20GTG/09-28-2014Lees2014GTGWankels_zpsbc2cea6e.jpg.html)

http://youtu.be/1IqaBli4_7I?list=UU7w5c7bYZrDdG_R-q_HLFmw (http://youtu.be/1IqaBli4_7I?list=UU7w5c7bYZrDdG_R-q_HLFmw)

https://youtu.be/1IqaBli4_7I
Title: Re: kms pics
Post by: Cut4fun . on October 06, 2014, 08:38:48 pm

Yanmar produced a rotary saw as well.

Any pics or info on that one?
Title: Re: kms pics
Post by: 166 on October 08, 2014, 07:35:20 pm
Take a look at the videos on this link.

http://www.chainsawcollectors.se/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=260&t=17492
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: Cut4fun on October 29, 2017, 08:23:39 am
inside kms

Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: HolmenTree on October 29, 2017, 01:51:06 pm
Here's some pics and a sample of articles on the introduction of the KMS-4 from a 1975 issue of Chainsaw Age Magazine.
This was also the year Fichtel Sachs bought out the 60% majority share of Dolmar in January 1975.

The Wankel saw sold well in the U.K. but was plagued with overheating issues, was also hard on fuel.
Back around 1980 my Jonsereds dealer also sold Sachs Dolmar , he had a KMS-4 sitting on display for about 5 years. It was never used and he offered to sell it to me for $500. Too bad I didn't take him up on it. Would be worth a pretty penny today.
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: Cut4fun . on October 29, 2017, 02:58:15 pm
I was told these were bought by the forest service and they started a fire using them.  That was part of the down fall for this saw. True or not no clue.

Nice info Willard, Thanks for sharing it with us.
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: HolmenTree on October 29, 2017, 04:20:17 pm
I've seen some pretty impressive hot saws built out of a Wankel engine. Only trouble is most shows won't recognize them as a one cylinder engine.
Hard to believe they put them in snowmobiles and such over 40 years ago.
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: Fishnuts2 on October 30, 2017, 08:17:58 am
A friend of mine had a 1970 or so Arctic Cat with the 303 cc. Sachs Wankel in it.  Very smooth running, and had a unique idle sound to it.
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: Cut4fun . on November 06, 2017, 07:05:43 am
Screen shot of the dolmar kms IPL  Also have it saved on HD to email if needed the full 8-9 page version.

Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: Chris-PA on November 16, 2017, 08:32:57 pm
Damn that looks complicated!  I always thought it was a great application for a rotary. 

A single rotor is equivalent to a 3 cylinder 4-stroke.
Title: Re: Sachs Dolmar KMS-4
Post by: Cut4fun . on February 12, 2020, 08:56:51 pm
CCC racing  saw