Chainsaw Repair

Husqvarna - Stihl - Poulan - Jonsered - Dolmar chainsaws and more => Stihl => Topic started by: jmester on September 26, 2014, 05:56:37 pm

Title: modding 440 oiler stihl oilers
Post by: jmester on September 26, 2014, 05:56:37 pm
anyone try and make a high flow oil pump by modding the piston pump and or control bolt. The 1.1 high flow piston pump from a 460 does not fit the 440 pump housing.

 Think there needs to be more travel of the piston pump but not sure. Was also thinking to make the half moon end of the piston pump deeper. Any ideas? ???
Title: Re: Ms 440
Post by: mdavlee . on September 26, 2014, 06:10:59 pm
That will help. Also make the notch a little bigger where the oil actually flows.
Title: Re: Ms 440
Post by: jmester on September 26, 2014, 08:41:33 pm
What do you mean by the notch? Will have to look at the high flow 460 control bolt to see if it will fit and if it gives me any more travel of the pump piston.
Title: Re: Ms 440
Post by: mdavlee . on September 27, 2014, 10:46:20 am
The notch down on the end away from the gear. That's where the oil actually comes through at.
Title: Re: Ms 440
Post by: jmester on September 27, 2014, 03:27:16 pm
Ok that is what I was thinking as well. how much do you think would be safe around a couple of thousandths?
Title: Re: Ms 440
Post by: jmester on October 15, 2014, 02:02:49 pm
Found that the high flow 460 control bolt will give you some more pump piston travel. I took the 440 notch on the pump piston to .125 witch is a thousandths shallow of the 460  high flow. Will have to get it on the saw and let you know how it does.
Title: Re: Ms 440
Post by: aclarke on October 15, 2014, 03:37:46 pm
Good info!
Title: Re: Ms 440
Post by: jmester on October 15, 2014, 08:36:48 pm
Thanks. The saw is a 440 hybrid and it does real well just the oil pump is a little weak. I hope this works out.
Title: Re: Ms 440
Post by: jmester on October 16, 2014, 11:51:51 am
Well it seems to sling a lot of oil. Will have to run it some more in some wood to see if it drains the oil tank before the gas runs out. I also have it on the max setting so there is some room to tone it back if it does. Pretty cheap way to make a high flow oil pump to me. 8 dollar control bolt and a little grinding.
Title: Re: Ms 440
Post by: brettl on October 19, 2014, 04:37:52 pm
What did you use to machine the .125? Is this something that requires special machining equipment?
Title: Re: Ms 440
Post by: mdavlee . on October 19, 2014, 06:45:31 pm
Glad it worked out. I'm going to do the one on my 64 here soon. I want it to oil a 36" real nice.
Title: Re: Ms 440
Post by: jmester on October 19, 2014, 08:51:01 pm
No special tools just found a small diameter grinding stone like for a Dremel. That fit the half moon on the pump shaft and ground a little at a time. It is very easy to get off to one side so be careful. Don't the high flow bolt and pump from a 066/660'fit the 064?
Title: Re: Ms 440
Post by: mdavlee . on October 20, 2014, 01:24:55 am
I think there's a difference in the 64 oilers and the 066s
Title: Re: Ms 440
Post by: jmester on October 20, 2014, 08:25:27 pm
You are right they are different. The old style oil pump uses its own pump shaft and control bolt. The new style pump you can run the high flow oil pump parts in that housing. The old style pump was before 1990 and serial number x 20 361 347. Hope this may help you a bit or maybe you already knew.
Title: Re: Ms 440
Post by: mdavlee . on October 21, 2014, 03:09:11 am
I knew there was a difference. I'll dig around and see what serial number I have and hope I have the newer so I can put the other parts in it.
Title: Re: Ms 440
Post by: Moparmyway on November 07, 2014, 10:00:41 am
Got any pics J ?
Title: Re: Ms 440
Post by: 660magnum on November 07, 2014, 10:59:12 am
Quote from: Gatekeeper on October 20, 2014, 01:24:55 am
I think there's a difference in the 64 oilers and the 066s

Correct, these are not the same. The 064 has a rubber tube connection between the pump and the trough channel that aligns with the oil hole in the bar.

The 066 has a cast elbow on the pump outlet that plugs into a hole in the crankcase with a bushing that leads to the oil channel that aligns with the oil hole in the bar.

The 064 pump is more like a 038
Title: Re: Ms 440
Post by: jmester on November 07, 2014, 08:00:53 pm
What kind of pics are you looking for? Don't have any but I can shoot some for you.
Title: Re: Ms 440
Post by: Moparmyway on November 08, 2014, 06:36:00 am
Where you ground down the shaft (1/2 moon) and how much you took off. I know you measured .125, any chance you measured before ?
Title: Re: Ms 440
Post by: jmester on November 09, 2014, 08:11:29 pm
(http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh535/jmester/imagejpg1-5.jpg) (http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/jmester/media/imagejpg1-5.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Ms 440
Post by: jmester on November 09, 2014, 08:20:53 pm
The half moon is to the left of the picture. I measured the half moon on the new piston pump I have here and it is .148 so you do need to take a fair amount off. I used the 460 high flow piston pump to come up with that number of .125. Hope that will help you.
Title: Re: Ms 440
Post by: mdavlee . on November 09, 2014, 11:02:44 pm
You can grind that slot more and then make the shoulder ramp a little steeper and that will add more stroke on the whole piston. Both will add flow.
Title: Re: Ms 440
Post by: Moparmyway on November 10, 2014, 07:32:33 am
So you made the scoop, or half moon longer by grinding where it meets the shaft ?
Title: Re: Ms 440
Post by: jmester on November 10, 2014, 08:07:42 pm
I made mine deeper. this was the first one i have done. i would like to play some more and figure out what works the best to just make it deeper or to make the scoop longer as Gatekeeper has mentioned above. Either route you take you are going to win and have more oil flow.
Title: Re: Ms 440
Post by: Cut4fun on December 15, 2014, 11:58:25 am
Mike I am going to leech your pics over here for this thread. That way it is updated with pics.
Title: Re: modding 440 oiler stihl oilers
Post by: Cut4fun on December 15, 2014, 12:01:37 pm
Per Mike = I know there was lots of talk on wanting stihls to oil better. You can buy Ho parts for some of the saws but the 440 and a few others don't have the parts available. I didn't mod this one yet but it's a 1122 oiler for the 064/66/660 series. The same thing applies to the 440/460 oilers but the end is shaped a little different. I did some paint shop work on the pictures to help you guys out. The control bolt there on the right is where the slanted end of the piston rides. You can make the circle a little smaller and it will give it more stroke. Taking that shoulder down does the same thing. There's .25mm difference in the HO oiler to regular on the 660. You can open the notch in the end where the oil actually travels a little bit in length to let more in there before it rolls around and forces it out to the bar.

other pics removed, embedded below.

Title: Re: modding 440 oiler stihl oilers
Post by: Tractorsaw1 on December 15, 2014, 04:50:33 pm
Does anyone have the 460 high output control bolt part #?  My 044/6 is a weak oiling also.  On the 064 I felt like my old modded pump put out more than the newer style pump with the 066 HO parts in it.  I took the pump over to bench grinder & thinned the head down about half of stock, that way it could unscrew more & not hit the case.  I put the 066 HO parts in 2 different saws & I don't think I am going to order in more of that.

I think I am going to drimmel the control bolt head stop to get a little more movement.
Title: Re: modding 440 oiler stihl oilers
Post by: 660magnum on December 15, 2014, 05:15:22 pm
Here is the service bulletin
Title: Re: modding 440 oiler stihl oilers
Post by: Tractorsaw1 on December 15, 2014, 05:36:58 pm
Thanks!
Title: Re: modding 440 oiler stihl oilers
Post by: Cut4fun on December 16, 2014, 06:34:09 pm
Pics embedded. Can you see them now?



Per Mike = I know there was lots of talk on wanting stihls to oil better. You can buy Ho parts for some of the saws but the 440 and a few others don't have the parts available. I didn't mod this one yet but it's a 1122 oiler for the 064/66/660 series. The same thing applies to the 440/460 oilers but the end is shaped a little different. I did some paint shop work on the pictures to help you guys out. The control bolt there on the right is where the slanted end of the piston rides. You can make the circle a little smaller and it will give it more stroke. Taking that shoulder down does the same thing. There's .25mm difference in the HO oiler to regular on the 660. You can open the notch in the end where the oil actually travels a little bit in length to let more in there before it rolls around and forces it out to the bar.


Title: Re: modding 440 oiler stihl oilers
Post by: Reddog on December 16, 2014, 06:39:08 pm
Yes, pics show up   :)
Title: Re: modding 440 oiler stihl oilers
Post by: Cut4fun on December 16, 2014, 06:42:22 pm
Mike didnt you say you just need to do 1 of the 3?
Title: Re: modding 440 oiler stihl oilers
Post by: mdavlee . on December 16, 2014, 08:36:22 pm
Quote from: Cut4fun on December 16, 2014, 06:42:22 pm
Mike didnt you say you just need to do 1 of the 3?
Yes you can do one of 3 or a combination. It only takes .25mm to get the same stroke as the 460 HO oiler over the stock. The 880 oiler has 1.5mm total stroke. The 460 is .9mm on the regular output. 1mm is .0393" so you only need .010" to get a 1/4 mm more stroke. If you go too far you can empty the oil before fuel. Then you have to port the saw to keep up