Chainsaw Repair
Husqvarna - Stihl - Poulan - Jonsered - Dolmar chainsaws and more => Poulan => Topic started by: rockfishon on October 06, 2014, 08:44:06 am
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Just finished replacing the tank assembly, now I need to tweak the carb.
The saw will idle for about 10-15 seconds then bog down and die. It will start right back up. If I feather the throttle every few seconds it will idle forever.
So I leaned out the L needle up until the chain starts to moves. Much better, idles longer. But still dies.
If I turn the L needle in some more, it makes the chain move, I can turn the IDLE needle out some. It seems that I can't set the idle low enough with the low needle tuned. It wont idle any lower, the chain still moves. BUT it will run like this for 3+ minutes.
Any Ideas guys? It has fresh fuel.
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A air leak will cause them to idle fast
Do you have the idle speed screw all the way in? There's the "H" & "L" screws then there is a big idle speed screw
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Yes, the large black screw. I have the idle screw all the way out to the point that it does not change the idle speed. I will check for a leak with some carbcleaner.
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The leak is likely around the "boot" or rubber connector between the cylinder and carburetor.
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Where is the L side set at? Not the I idle
Have you put new diaphragms in the carb? Rebuilt.
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The boot seemed flexible and sound when I swapped out the tank. I will check again. I have never had to rebuilt the carb. Bought new in ~1998. Maybe a symptom of something in the carb going south?
When I slowly lean out the L needle, the saw seems to run better and start to pick up rpm to the point where the saw seems to be running at 1/4 throttle. Riching it out to bring the idle down, the saw seems to idle normally but then dies after 15-20 seconds.
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clean and rebuild the carb.
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The "L" mixture needle should be used to make the engine run correctly at the lowest speeds.
The big idle speed screw should then be used to control the idle speed. The correct idle speed is just slower than where the chain begins to spin.
I have a Poulan 3500 that is a lot like your 3450 (the same age) and I had to replace the carburetor diaphragms three years ago. I've had to replace the fuel filter in the tank three times over the years.
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Sounds like it could be another misbehaving HDA164....
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Sounds like it could be another misbehaving HDA164....
I think he needs to rebuild it to rule that out considering he hasn't touched it since the saw was new. ;)
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Yep. K22-HDA is the kit. Make it happen Rockfish.8)
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Any recommendations on where to buy?
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Everyone probably knows, but I ran into this great service manual for the Walbro carbs:
http://www.walbro.com/media/21936/SERVICEMANUAL.pdf
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I get alot of my kits through Mowers4u. http://www.mowers4u.com/
Just shop around and find whats best for you.
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Sometimes I just by my kits on eBay.
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The Mowers4U guys have been good to me. I've bought from them through ebay and direct. Here's the K22-HDA kit on their site. That's just about the cheapest I've seen for an actual Walbro kit for this carb. I've seen them for $9 shipped on ebay from other sellers before.
http://www.mowers4u.com/walbro-walbro-k22hda-carburetor-repair-p-769.html
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I just received the rebuild kit in the mail. There are many more parts than what I thought were going to be in there. Removing the punch plug also seems scary since the manual says I can damage the carb if not done correctly with the "special" tool. Is it imperative that I replace all the parts?
Also since this is the time of year for using the saw and it still runs, I am inclined to hold off till a cold winter day to rebuild it. I don't want to disable the saw now.
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The regulator diaphragm is the most likely part to go bad.
Years ago the check valve tabs of the fuel pump diaphragm would curl up but today the pump diaphragms are typically Mylar or Kevlar composites.
The needle of the regulator valve sometimes gets a ring worn in it.
The other parts are seldom suspect.
With an old used saw with unknown history - anything is possibly wrong?
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Original owner and I have never had to touch the carb till swapping out the tank/handle.
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The regulator diaphragms are still a type of fabric reinforced rubber compound and get stiff.
This causes a very inconsistent fuel mixture to the engine and you can never seem to get the needles set correctly.
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I just received the rebuild kit in the mail. There are many more parts than what I thought were going to be in there. Removing the punch plug also seems scary since the manual says I can damage the carb if not done correctly with the "special" tool. Is it imperative that I replace all the parts?
Also since this is the time of year for using the saw and it still runs, I am inclined to hold off till a cold winter day to rebuild it. I don't want to disable the saw now.
Its likely you won't have to remove and replace the welch plugs. Just be sure to match the pump and metering diaphragms with those currently in your carb. Most carb kits are used on many diff. carbs so extra parts are included.
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Have seen worn clutch springs make the chain move on a saw that is set at the correct idle speed. But I am not so familiar with the poulan style circle spring so maybe not an issue.
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Have seen worn clutch springs make the chain move on a saw that is set at the correct idle speed. But I am not so familiar with the poulan style circle spring so maybe not an issue.
Yes it can happen on a clutch spring on a 3450 also. All it takes is for someone to run the saw getting the clutch very hot and the heat takes the tension out of the spring.
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Is there an easy way to remove the carb without taking the tank assembly off? It seems that the screws that fasten the carb to the hangle support are in the way of removing it.
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Yes you can, but I got to run sorry.
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I've removed and replaced them without removing or even loosening the tank.
It's not easy but can be done if you jiggle things around just right.
It's been three years since I did one. I'd have to have it in front of me?
Seems like you had to leave the screws in the carb as you remove it?
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I got it but I don't think it would be called a preferred way. Loosened the top screw that attaches the handle assembly to the carb. Then I pushed the carb screws through with the hex key. Had to wiggle and pull hard but I don't think anything bent. Inside the carb looked really clean. Just replaced both side stuff and cleaned the outside (just to make it look clean). I have not had time to start it and try to tune it again.
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Yeah it was a PITA. But was able to wiggle it out and push it back on. Took some patience. I didnt even remove the rear handle part from what I remember.
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I gave you a Karma for changing your carb without removing the tank assembly. +1
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So I seem to have the same symptoms. I can't get the saw to idle properly. I did not replace the gasket on the back side of the carb where it attaches to the support. It looked fine and was not torn. The inside of the carb looked very clean with no build up and all screens were immaculate.
The saw has a high idle with the idle screw all the way out. When I set the high speed needle to what I think is the correct mixture and then tune the low speed needle, the saw races to what seems to be half throttle. When I set the low rich, the rpm's decrease and it will eventually stall.
I think I have to check to make sure there is no air leak but I am fairy certain that there isn't.
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The metering valve diaphragm can be old & stiff and not work correctly.
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The metering valve diaphragm can be old & stiff and not work correctly.
+1. There are two diaphragms in those carbs. One for metering the fuel like mentioned and the other for a pump. They get stiff and do not work well after a time.
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I just put all new parts in the carb that I could get to except for the screens and plugs. Put a new plastic thing-a-ma-gig with a silver circle on one side and a fiber new part on the other side.
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That fixed my 3500 up. Its been 3 yrs ago and it still runs great.
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What did the saw do if tilted on both sides back and forth when idling?
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I still think that it.....
Sounds like it could be another misbehaving HDA164....
.....but what do I know?
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Messed around a little more last weekend. The position of the saw does not change any of the symptoms.
I can keep it running by feathering the throatle. The high speed needle does not seem to make any difference, it still runs with the high speed needle almost all the way turned in. I guess I will meed to tear the carb apart again.
Do they sell new replacement carbs for this old saw? I might be better off with that solution.
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Do you have any other poulan saws with the 49 smaller carb to throw on and try out? 2700 2800 3000 3300 335 305 365 3500 3600 2.8 3.0 3.3 3.7 to name a few
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Unfortunately I do not. Maybe I need to try and pick up a parts saw.
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I found a hda-164 for $40 on ebay. Is this the one that I need?
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Yes HDA 164 is the right carb. Look in Carb fixes & mods there is a fix for the HDA 164 which should be on your saw.
Shep
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Yes HDA 164 is the right carb. Look in Carb fixes & mods there is a fix for the HDA 164 which should be on your saw.
Shep
The fix involves a new high speed check valve. Don't know if we ever found a source for those. I have a 164 waiting for one....
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I thought one of the problems with the 164 was with the high speed nozzle leaking at idle because of the one way valve that is in that circuit. I could be wrong with the ole memory bank.
It was an intermittent problem that sometimes showed up in that particular carb.
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Yes HDA 164 is the right carb. Look in Carb fixes & mods there is a fix for the HDA 164 which should be on your saw.
Shep
The fix involves a new high speed check valve. Don't know if we ever found a source for those. I have a 164 waiting for one....
Looks like you beat me there Aaron.
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I thought one of the problems with the 164 was with the high speed nozzle leaking at idle because of the one way valve that is in that circuit. I could be wrong with the ole memory bank.
It was an intermittent problem that sometimes showed up in that particular carb.
My ailing HDA164 was all over the place. L and H side were both way out of whack and responded unpredictability to adjustments. The NOS HDA137 that I swapped on cured things...
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"L and H side were both way out of whack and responded unpredictability to adjustments"
This is a symptom of the bad high speed nozzle check valve from my experience
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Yep. That carb sits on my shelf, awaiting a new HS nozzle check valve. I don't know of a source for them.
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Well I bought the EBAY carb thinking it was new. Reread the ad and it was pulled from a poulan 330. Oh well, now I probably have 2 carbs with issues. Once I get it and inspect, probably time to order another rebuild kit. :( Still hoping for the best...
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I got the new carb. Found that replacing it is a little easier if you cut the 2 bolt a little shorter that hold the carb on. Bad news - still the same issue. It has a really high idle and the low speed is needle is rich to keep it running. Thought some more - must be a leak on intake. Sure enough, starting fluid shows that the the right side looking from the carb is the area where I need to explore. I guess I need to get that rubber intake boot off to inspect. This must have happened during my tank/handle replacement. At least now I have a spare carb and a little closer to the problem.
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At least you know how to take it back apart and get to the boot. I learned a few things the hard way my first time at it also.
The 3450 was one of the first saws that I put a new piston in and used the acid method for cleaning up the cylinder.
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Are you removing the rear handle cover and trigger/linkage when R/R'ing the carb? Makes it MUCH easier on these saws in my experience. That cover is held down with a phillips screw (from the bottom) at the rear and two lugs at the front....
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It pulls right off without doing that with the shorter carb bolts. I have probably removed the carb over 10 times now in total. It helped me to get a little more room to push the carb bolts in by slightly prying with a large screw driver between the top of the cylinder head and the handle bar. Remember that the top left anti-vibration hex bolt needs to be removed for this movement.
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Pushing in those bolts might allow the intake boot to slip out of position. Remember that the boot flange is clamped in a 'sandwich' that includes the metal bracket (closest to the cylinder.........bolt heads seat in it), the tank body, the boot flange, the metal carb plate, the carb gasket, the carb, and the AF bulkhead....
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Removed the rubber intake boot this evening. It looked fine and didn't have any cracks. It was still very flexible. The clamp that attaches it to the cylinder seemed a little loose, not as tight as I would like to see it, but the screw on the clamp was as tight as it would get. Tried another hose clamp even though it was a little bigger and tightened it down. Started the saw and had the problem. Spraying starting fluid on the right side of the intake boot at the cylinder made it run rich.
Is there any chance that the cylinder can be ****? If I take the cylinder head off do I need to replace the gasket or can it be reused? I don't know where to go from here.
Thanks for the tip on the handle cover. I will look into the rear handle cover again. I might have saved me from cutting the bolts if it gives me the extra access.
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Reading other messages... can a bad the impulse line cause this? Kind of odd because it is on the other side of the motor where I spray the starting fluid.
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Reading other messages... can a bad the impulse line cause this? Kind of odd because it is on the other side of the motor where I spray the starting fluid.
Oh yea. Better check it.
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I have had several **** impulse lines and a bad **** cylinder base gasket. K.I.S first checking impulse etc.
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Can anyone remember if the clamp is suppose to be tightened all the way down with no room left to tighten? Seems a little odd to me.
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I replaced the pulse line... no help. Still having the same problem. Then I took the cylinder off. The base gasket was ****. Time to order a new gasket. Is there anything else I should do no that I am this deep? Any specs on the for the tightness of the cylinder once I put it back together?
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Will this gasket kit work? http://www.ereplacementparts.com/gasket-set-p-247902.html
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All I know is when I order gasket kit it comes with 3-4 cylinder gaskets.
I just snug clamps tight.
I just tighten cylinder bolts and check retighten after use.
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Will this gasket kit work? http://www.ereplacementparts.com/gasket-set-p-247902.html
yes
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Do I need a ring compressor to get the piston back in the cylinder? Is there an easy way to remover the carbon on the top of the piston or should I chisel it off or just leave it alone?
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I leave the carbon alone.
Generally the rings will go up in the piston.
I have used a wire tie around the ring(s) and cut them away after the piston goes up in the cylinder.
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I am going to start a new thread since this is no longer a carb issue.
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My first 3750 had a **** base gasket. Was sold to me online on bay as runs perfect.
That saw in a way is what has lead to this site being put together. Dolmar echo poulan dealer gave me estimate of $200+ to fix $170 saw. I took my parts back and started reading online on how to repair myself.
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Replaced the base gasket and got the saw put back together. Runs like it new! Thanks!
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Great to hear.
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I forgot about this video by mweba Maybe this might help some still looking at carb replacements. Poulan 3450 HDA 77 carb swap
https://youtu.be/AgdKfNVB1Ds
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What saw did the HDA77 come from? Did Mitch have to modify the carb or change parts for it to work on the 3450?
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What saw did the HDA77 come from? Did Mitch have to modify the carb or change parts for it to work on the 3450?
@mweba
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What saw did the HDA77 come from? Did Mitch have to modify the carb or change parts for it to work on the 3450?
@mweba
I went searching. Seems to be a 77a 77b 77-1 etc. http://wem.walbro.com/walbro/product.asp?CategoryName=Titan+50&Series=HDA&partnum=HDA-77-1&GroupName=Chain%20Saw&FamilyName=MC%20CULLOCH
From Macs it looks like.
MCCULLOCH Chain Saw
Carburetor HDA-77-1
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mcculloch titan 57 chainsaw walbro HDA77 carburetor
(http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0032/0472/products/before_8325963_medium.jpg?v=1284490575)
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Is hd77 any better than the 137 or 164? Or is this the next best thing? Just bought a 3500 with no carb :)
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3500 you just need the oem 49 carb with small boot.
I dont know why Mitch did the switch. Maybe had a problematic 164 carb ???
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Very interesting. Mitch comes up with the coolest stuff. Looks like the HDA77 has a venture diameter that's in between the HDA49 and the HDA136/164.
http://wem.walbro.com/walbro/product.asp?CategoryName=Titan+50&Series=HDA&partnum=HDA-77-1&GroupName=Chain%20Saw&FamilyName=MC%20CULLOCH
http://wem.walbro.com/walbro/product2.asp?partnum=HDA-164-1&Series=HDA
http://wem.walbro.com/walbro/product2.asp?partnum=HDA-137-1&Series=HDA
I agree on the 3500. Just get an original HDA49 (they are common).
http://wem.walbro.com/walbro/product2.asp?partnum=HDA-49-1&Series=HDA
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What was it? Link not working for me. I already had the other 3 figured out.
smaller hda 49 to the bigger hda 164 137
49 Venturi 12.7mm
164 Venturi 16.66mm
137 Venturi 16.61mm
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What was it? Link not working for me. I already had the other 3 figured out.
smaller hda 49 to the bigger hda 164 137
49 Venturi 12.7mm
164 Venturi 16.66mm
137 Venturi 16.61mm
HDA77 Venturi 15.8mm.