Chainsaw Repair

Chain - Grinders - Filing - Wood Milling - Tools - Welding - Machinist - Mowers - Tillers => Chain - Bars - Grinders - Filing => Topic started by: 660magnum on November 22, 2014, 12:51:03 am

Title: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on November 22, 2014, 12:51:03 am
Plunge Type Bow Bars are generally the thin loop type bars you sometimes see on old chainsaws.

They were more common in the 1950's-60's commercial pulp wood areas of the USA and more specifically in the loblolly pine "tree farm" areas. For a complete description of the species . . . http://www.na.fs.fed.us/pubs/silvics_manual/Volume_1/pinus/taeda.htm  with a 21-29 yr harvest turn around.

They were well suited to "Bucking" a under 20" DBH tree trunk laying out across the ground particularly the tall thin loblolly pines with just a few limbs at the very top. The trunks were cut up into somewhere around 8' lengths down to 3" diameter without the bark. So there was more bucking than with lumber but less than firewood.
www.fs.fed.us/pnw/olympia/silv/publications/opt/6_WorthingtonTwerdal1950.pdf

Though the bow bar is not considered at it's best as a felling device, they weren't difficult to use to fell the small loblolly pines.

These "tree farm" pines were cut at a smaller size as their most dynamic period of growth was in the early years.

One big aspect of the bar was that the work could be done from the standing position.

When bucking wood on the ground, a bow bar doesn't get pinched by the cut closing up like a regular chainsaw bar does.

Another aspect was that the weight of the chainsaw was used to advantage to help the bar through the wood for the saw was typically used vertically above the wood with the bar down against the wood.


This type of wood production is rarely seen now days for these trees are now cut with a harvester that cuts the tree off the stump, strips the limbs and loads the whole tree on a trailer. The tree is taken to a saw mill where it will yield a couple 2 X 4's and the remainder is chipped before being sent to the paper or OSB plywood mill. The lumber yield is typically used in the "treated" lumber trade.

In the uploaded picture is a old rusty Mac 650 with a bow bar. The picture is from Ebay. This example was from more towards the end of the bow bar era. The chain would be your typical 3/8" much like today and was commonly .50" gauge. This bar would measure 20" from the front of the slot to the outside of a chain tooth on the front of the bar. Cross ways, to measure in front of the stop or dawg to the other side of the bar is 14" chain tooth outside to chain tooth outside. It takes a 4 cube saw!

Upon close scrutiny of the rusty bar, you will take notice of a shiny rim along the whole front edge of the bar that is not rusty. This is a Stellite hard face of a hard cobalt/chrome and other alloy metal that was applied to the front edge of the bar for wear resistance. If you are buying a bar, you want to look for this "hard face" and make sure it is not worn away. This hard face can be rebuilt. It is typically done with a welding rod but has to be finished by grinding. The most worn area would likely be nearer the "Stop" or "Spur"?

Now that you have read this, enlarge the picture so you can see what I was talking about.
Title: Re: Bow Bars
Post by: 660magnum on November 22, 2014, 01:11:35 am
Watch the technique in the 2nd video. How he starts the cut, then lets the spur or spike slip down low on the log, then he rotates the saw over the top. Later on, ignore him running the chain in the dirt on every cut. The yellowish orange and greenish saws are beasts. The yellowish orange saw is a Poulan Pro 655 reed valve chainsaw that is made by Poineer/Partner as a P65 98cc 1988. The greenish Poulan is a Countervibe 4400 70cc mid 80's reed valve engine. They both have the same size bar 14" X 20". They cut real good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLy5USqXXjE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf-XSqHz148

This next one is more of a parody on how not to use a bow. You are to use the end . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l_6rwbTkyw

Stink Bait and Dean after they get the old Poulan going about halfway into the video . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNQew7hSps0

Brad Snelling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzHFSgT5rio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4GmuWzlkf4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUmA12ApozE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G80EXLg7DtE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocxHS6BxFAk
Title: Re: Bow Bars
Post by: 660magnum on November 22, 2014, 02:15:38 am
A little clearing/brush bow on a SD25.

A setup using the clearing/brush plunge type bow bar and under 50cc power head is a common sight at a Christmas tree farm over much of the USA and Canada. The Christmas tree is small and the typical felling operation is to reach under the limbs with the 20" long bar and make a single plunge cut. Ideal for a small bow type bar.  These bars are often 20" long but are only some 8" across the radius on the front where the cutting is done. You can run either .325" or 3/8" chain on the bar as there is no nose sprocket tooth pitch to worry about.  They might be .050" or .058 gauge depending on what area of the country they are from.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QfZwLM0reQ
Title: Re: Bow Bars
Post by: 660magnum on November 22, 2014, 02:56:10 am
To give you and idea of how the bow bars are made . . . .
The first picture is of a rim part of a bow blade. This particular example the guy is trying to sell on Ebay without the saw adapter. He says he has the adapter but doesn't present it or tell which saw it is for. You can see where the adapter for the saw bolts on. But most of the newer bars are made from this rim with a piece of 1/4" steel plate welded at the throat to adapt the bar to the mount on the chainsaw. The bars as shown in picture #1 were used on some of the old Homelite gear drive chainsaws and there was a clamp mechanism on the saw that held these bars in place. When you removed the bar, all you had was what is in the picture, the attachment mechanism stayed on the Homelite.

The 2nd picture is of a complete bar and if you enlarge and look closely you can see where the saw adapter was welded in and the slot and hole for the tensioner are. There's typically a oil hole and there is a drilled hole down through from the slot of the bar to the oil hole. With the picture enlarged you can see the hard facing on this bar also. I count 85 driver links.

I'm telling you this as there are bars that come up on Ebay all the time for old chainsaws. Many of these have never been used. I have one like this that was for a Mac and you can see where someone welded up the holes and reworked the slot and holes for a D009 big Husky mount.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: 660magnum on November 22, 2014, 03:24:21 am
If you need reworking done and are looking for a repair source . . . .

http://chainsawrepair.createaforum.com/husqvarna/bow-repair/msg28187/#msg28187

http://chainsawrepair.createaforum.com/used-chainsaw-parts-online/new-bow-or-specialty-bars-or-bar-repair/msg10280/#msg10280
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: 660magnum on November 22, 2014, 04:56:51 am
Felling a 14" DBH diseased tree with a bow saw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS1CYN6K72s
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: snoozeys on November 22, 2014, 05:21:30 am
Wonder what is involved in adapting a bar saw to run as a bow saw
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: 660magnum on November 22, 2014, 06:57:33 am
The things that usually happen is first that the bow bars that are 14" high across the front need a 60cc chainsaw or larger.

I don't know of any new bars being made except the little 8" high brush clearing bars used on the smaller saws?

So most of the available bars were originally made for the McCulluch, Homelite, and Poulan saws. If your chainsaw is different from this, you will likely have to change the old bar or get one that someone else changed? These old bars are still out there that were never used.

You will have to get a chain made up or make it yourself for the bar as it is unusual for one to be 84 DL.

More typical than not, the top front of your clutch cover will have to have a notch cut into it to clear the bar.

These bars are what is called hard nosed bars and there are no sprockets in them. So the chain will need to be run a little loose and your oiler will have to work well.

This is Just South of Chesterfield, VA.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jamesirl/Bow%20Poulan%204000.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jamesirl/media/Bow%20Poulan%204000.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: 660magnum on November 22, 2014, 07:07:24 am
These bow bars that are all rebuilt or unused and set up for your late model chainsaw will likely cost more than $100 dollars without the chain. I saw some for $225.

The $60 bar will likely need some work?

The bars have different groove widths. They are .050", .058", or .063". You will need the correct gauge chain for your bar.

The only correlation of the clutch sprocket with respect to the bow type bar is that the pitch of the sprocket must match the pitch of your chain. In other words if you are running regular 3/8" pitch chain, your sprocket or rim on your clutch must also be 3/8".

The guards in the picture are made of 16 gauge aluminum and are painted silver for some unknown reason? They come in different gauge thicknesses and are manufactured as an extruded 10' or 20' length of aluminum that is cut off to the proper length.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: 3000 FPS on November 22, 2014, 09:23:06 pm
Good thread on bow saws.  I have always wanted at least one bow saw but have not found one yet at a reasonable price. 
Some good information and you never know I might find one yet.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: 660magnum on November 22, 2014, 09:44:50 pm
One thing about it, you have the skill and tools to rebuild the mount to fit your saw if necessary.

Keep warm!
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: aclarke on November 22, 2014, 10:29:54 pm
Great thread. Thks
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: 3000 FPS on November 22, 2014, 11:15:55 pm
One thing about it, you the skill and tools to rebuild the mount to fit your saw if necessary.

Keep warm!

I have welded up several saws that had been converted to a bow and would not like grinding away on a perfectly good saw set up for a bar.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: 660magnum on November 23, 2014, 02:29:51 am
I've been around several Poulans that had bow bars fitted at one time. The give-away was that there was a notch cut out of the top front of the clutch cover to allow clearance for the top of the bar.

In my case I have a nice Husqvarna 371 that already has a cut out clutch cover. Therefore I anticipate a minimum of impact. I gave the bar a trial fit today and everything aligns including the oil hole. I've got to look around on some of my junker 365's or in the junk drawer for a old brake mechanism cover and bar plate that are somewhat chewed up and relieve the top front corner a small amount for chain cutter clearance. Looks as though the chain will be 3/8" X .050 X 85 DL X Stihl RS. I would rather it would be "RM" but none of the seven Stihl dealers in my area had bulk RM. This bar measures 14" diameter across the apex. It is 15" from cutter tooth to cutter tooth outside.

Here is a old picture of my bar as I bought it and as you can see it is set up in the mount area to be mounted "low" and the impact on the top of the clutch cover front will be minimal. The spur and hand guards are not in this trial fit picture. The bar is more than 30 yrs old but never has had a chain on it. The yellow bar in the top picture is shown on an old Stihl 041. But the mounting slot is not wide enough to go over the flanges at the base of the bar studs.

The top yellow bar in the bottom picture is my bar before the oil hole was moved. If you enlarge the picture and find the oil hole, you will notice a scribed line out to the edge of the chain rail that corresponds with the hole drilled from the chain groove to the oil hole in the mounting flange. It was first tried that the original oil hole was welded up and new oil hole drilled farther from the bolt slot. Then it was decided to copy closer the D009 oil hole position and a new oil hole was drilled half way through the bar in the proper location and then a hole was drilled from the slot in a new location. The new path from the hole to the slot was canted into the direction of chain travel. The oil holes in the side of the bar are 3/32" and the paths to the slot are 1/16".

Take note that in the bottom picture, there are two bars. They represent the two popular common later designs of bow bars. The bottom reversible bar supposedly bolts up to a Husqvarna D009? Notice the oil holes are drilled all the way through the plate and shows on both sides.  It obviously was for some other saw but happens to fit?  It is a Commercial Chain Bar Brand and they no longer make the 14" wide bars.

The 12" apex bars are typically 81DL.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: snoozeys on November 23, 2014, 09:41:16 am
I didn't like the idea at first but after watching the clips I would give it a go ... I know my back would appreciate it
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: 660magnum on November 24, 2014, 09:29:15 am
I've come across a situation that may or may not matter to some of you?

When mounting one of the 70's style plunge type bow bars on a later chainsaw (Let's say a Husqvarna 372XP?) there are some compromises . . .

You have to mount the bar hanging low to avoid conflicts with the chain brake mechanism.

With the bar mounted low, the use of the chainsaw is actually OK or perhaps even better than with the bar mounted with the bottom in the same plane as the bottom of the chainsaw as on the old saws of the 60's.

However, with the present day chainsaw with the low mounted bow bar at rest and setting on the ground, the chainsaw will set cocked up at an angle resting on the tip of the dog or spike. You sometimes see a split of fire wood under a saw to help support it or to keep the chain out of the dirt?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jamesirl/_57-3.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jamesirl/media/_57-3.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: 3000 FPS on November 24, 2014, 11:35:02 am
I still see the bucking dawg on there.   Not much use with a bow except to add some dead weight.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: 660magnum on November 24, 2014, 12:25:38 pm
Correct.

The bucking dogs should be removed to save weight. The saw in the picture was for sale.

The spur, dog, spike, or what ever, out on the end of the bow is two sided. Some people just use one side to save weight.

Most people just run the top hand guard also to save weight.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: 660magnum on December 19, 2014, 11:10:07 pm
This bar has slots wide enough for a Stihl.

One thing to notice is that the bar is reversible and can be turned over.

Another, is that due to the angles of the slots, this bar will fit your Stihl with a minimum of alteration.

Would be great on your 044? Whoever made this bar, it is made like my single slot Husqvarna bar.

Enlarge the picture and study? I cannot see the oil hole? The picture is from Ebay.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: 3000 FPS on December 20, 2014, 12:21:13 am
All I see are the two holes in the center.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: 660magnum on December 20, 2014, 12:40:25 am
Me too. There is a very faint mark where the oil hole would likely be? Must be plugged?

OIL HOLES

The alternate point of the post is that oil holes are important and somewhat difficult to make in bow bars and must always be considered.

One guy in one of the earlier pictures in this thread had a plastic oil bottle taped to the top handle that dribbled oil on his chain.

Most of these bars were intended for popular saws in the 80's. A narrow bar stud slot is easy to make wider.

But a oil hole in the wrong place or a mounting slot that is too wide must be welded up and repositioned.

New oil holes - well - You have to drill down inside the chain slot to intersect the oil hole. This is limited by the width of the chain slot as well as the thickness of the bar mounting pad. In other words, you cannot break out the side and you must hit the oil hole. It takes a guy used to drilling holes in metal with a 1/16" bit to do this work. Small drill bits have to be spun very fast and fed straight or they will lead off and out the side.

A regular bar for the current popular chainsaws has the oil hole very close to the bottom of the chain slot. If you study one you will find that they went in with a .050" thick saw blade or grinding wheel and deepened the chain slot right at the oil hole to provide a lead for the oil out of the hole and into the chain slot.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: 3000 FPS on December 20, 2014, 11:16:40 am
That is interesting about the oil holes and grinding the slot deeper.   I have drilled a couple of bars down through the slot using the flex shaft that I have.   It turned out just fine and worked good.   I have drilled some new oil holes in bars but have not thought about deepening the slot where the oil hole is.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: 660magnum on January 06, 2015, 06:46:39 am
The big question with bow bars is: Will it fit my saw or can it be made to fit my chainsaw?

You may soon wonder if they say it fits your saw - how close does it fit? How well does it oil?

Here are some current bar pattern fitments from Oregon . . .

Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: 660magnum on January 06, 2015, 12:09:00 pm
Here's the way my bar looked before the 8mm slot was opened up to 9 mm and the oil hole was moved on the other side from aligning with what would be the adjuster pin position. It was originally a non-reversible D276 style for Macs. It is now a non-reversible D009 mount. See the top bar in the bottom picture.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jamesirl/BowMac2.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jamesirl/media/BowMac2.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: 660magnum on January 07, 2015, 11:14:42 am
This is my bow bar that I plan to use on my Husqvarna 371.
Facts: Unknown actual brand but was a one sided D276 for a McCulloch. 14" diameter
           
           Original oil hole was welded up and redrilled farther away from the slot at the D009 distance (the hole closer to the bar throat)
           A second oiler hole was drilled and cross drilled (away from the bar throat)
           Bar was sanded bare and repainted in TSC Kubota orange
           Broke and spun a loop of Stihl 3/8" X 85 DL X .050" X RS chain shown on bar
           This bow bar oils very well with the two oil holes.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jamesirl/P1070038.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jamesirl/media/P1070038.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: 3000 FPS on January 07, 2015, 01:00:28 pm
Someone sure did a lot of work on that bar.   Just goes to show what can be done and modified to work.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: 660magnum on January 07, 2015, 01:18:14 pm
I'm thinking the dad of the kid I bought the bar from on Ebay did the welding and drilling? I bought the black bar in the picture but he sent me the yellow bar??? I think I like the yellow one better because it hangs lower and there's less to do to my 371?

Only thing about the slot - instead of measuring and scribing a line and then filing to the line, he used a angle grinder to widen the slot enough to fit the bar studs.

A little sloppy and I tried to even it out with a file. But it works fine. Now, you probably wouldn't notice unless you had nothing else to do?

The reason for the two oil holes? I figure the single 1/16" hole up to the slot was thought to not be big enough? The new second hole has a little lead in the direction of chain travel.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: 660magnum on January 28, 2015, 01:20:47 pm
It's a pretty, sunny day, with little wind. But it's in the teens F and there is 6" snow on the ground. Ideal chainsaw weather for a young man. But I'm not a young man.

I'm in the Easy Boy with Fox news on the TV only because Turner Classic Movies has some foreign movie on.

I was looking on Ebay at the Bow bars and browsing the offerings. The selection comes and goes and between Thanksgiving and Christmas was a lot better. Half of what's offered today was on Ebay back in the early fall.

The main reason I was making this post is the newer offerings on Ebay are freshly painted bars. Personally, I wouldn't buy one of these! A bow type bar has a hard face area on the rim cutting area. If you have a picture of a old bar with the paint mostly gone, you can see this hard faced area of the bar. It is shiny like chrome. It will not rust. The most important area for this hard face is within 6" of the "stop" or dog. That is where all the pressure and wear is. That is where the hard face is likely to be worn away.

If the bar is all painted up nice, it is difficult to see the wear area on the Ebay pictures. - Beware - ???

I was lucky enough to get essentially a NOS bar. It never had a chain on it. The paint was all skinned up. A little light rust. Looked rough. But you could tell all about it in the picture. And then the guy rattle canned red on one side of it before he sent it to me which I didn't care for. I sanded all the paint off, the original Mac yellow - as well as his thin red. Then after looking it over, I painted it with Tractor Supply Kubota orange which is close to Husqvarna orange.

These bars are likely no newer than the mid 80's and were made for chainsaws of the era when the bars were made. So be prepared for some metal work to make them fit your Stihl or Husqvarna?  With the newer chainsaws, it is typically better to set the bar up to hang low rather rather than the bottom of the bow being parallel with the bottom of your chainsaw. The reason for this is it reduces the changes required around the top of the bar mount area of your chainsaw.

Take note that there were a lot of bow bars made for Poulan chainsaws. It is highly likely that you can find one that already fits your Poulan?

Also these guys in the South Eastern USA that are selling these old bars on Ebay may have a pile of them in the back room? There's a possibility that they may have what you are looking for but have not put it on Ebay?

Keep in mind that the 12" - 14" high bow bar is great for blocking up firewood on a fallen tree. A bow bar is not exactly the handiest bar to fell a good sized tree with. These bars are 60cc or 4 cube size saw bars.

The little narrow bow bars are called "brush" bars and are great for Christmas trees. They can be used with a 50cc - 3 cube chainsaws.

 

 
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: Cut4fun on January 28, 2015, 02:04:17 pm
Back a few years ago on another puter I had sites marked where you could by new bow bars.  I looked for info yesterday and the new bar bow market must have dried up?  Any info on who is selling new bow bars or did the regulations and lawsuits kill them all off?
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: 660magnum on January 28, 2015, 02:16:39 pm
This company manufactures the Christmas tree bars.

http://www.chainbar.com/products.html

They can also redo the hard face overlay on old wide bars or rebuild the mount area to fit your saw including the slot and oil hole.

This company would also be a good source of guards and spurs or stops (dogs) for bow bars.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: 660magnum on January 28, 2015, 02:21:46 pm
At one time this company sold bow bars and may have some guards or stops?

http://www.boweninc.net/home

I just called this company and he said that all the sources he dealt with have gone out of business and it has been four years since he has had any bow bar parts.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: 660magnum on January 28, 2015, 02:23:24 pm
SRCarr, a member here can rebuild your bar hard face areas or re-make the mount area to fit your saw?

He can straighten and also build up and redress the chain slots.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: 660magnum on January 28, 2015, 02:31:27 pm
My guards are made from 16 gauge aluminum but there's no reason guards could not be made up from 20 gauge galvanized tin from the local heating / air conditioning dealer?

To bend them up would take a sheet metal break heavy enough for the gauge steel or aluminum you are bending.

The bends in the guards could be a little simpler if you used nuts for spacers to get the inside edge of the guard away from the bar enough to allow clearance for the chain teeth?

Likewise, with spacers to get the bar stop away from the teeth, you could easily make up a spur/stop assembly with steel from Tractor Supply or the hardware store.

My stop was manufactured with bends to space it out away from the chain.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: Cut4fun . on January 28, 2015, 02:48:01 pm
Thats the only one I found.  Then it says we dont manufacturer bow bars only repair.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: Cut4fun . on January 28, 2015, 02:49:05 pm


I just called this company and he said that all the sources he dealt with have gone out of business and it has been four years since he has had any bow bar parts.

Thats what I figured was happening. No market and ??
Title: Re: Bow Bars Good For Firewood?
Post by: 660magnum on January 28, 2015, 02:56:46 pm
Chainbar makes the Christmas tree felling bars I understand, but the prices are rather expensive compared to regular bars.

There's a lot of old bars out there and the most sophisticated repair is dressing out the slot. The mount is just 1/4" plate.

The 1/16" oil hole from the slot down to the hole to match the oil groove on your saw is somewhat delicate if you are not used to doing that work?

Those old Homelite bare bars with the cast clamp assemblies are a good candidate as you can throw away the clamp assembly and weld in a piece of 1/4" plate for your mount?
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 3000 FPS on January 28, 2015, 08:07:13 pm
I have seen the bow bars on eBay and always thought they were a little pricey.   But thanks for the heads up on the ones that are all painted up.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on January 28, 2015, 09:59:34 pm
The fact about an old skinned up half rusty bow bar is that there cannot be any lies. It is what it is.

A painted up one may cover up some problems? May not? How do you tell? It may have been full of rust pits that are full of Bondo and smoothed over? Maybe the hard face is worn off the rails at the stop location?
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on January 28, 2015, 11:21:07 pm
Here is a Ebay Poulan 4200 with what looks, at first, like a pretty nice bow bar. But if you click on the picture and go to Photo Bucket and then look at the full bigger picture with the "+". . .

It sure gives me the impression that the hard face is worn off within 4" of the stop? It may be the angle or the light but I can not see the shiny hard face on the rim of the bar close to the stop? Makes me wonder? In this case, maybe the bar could be turned over? There's the other more direct picture of that area and you can not see the hard face in that picture either.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jamesirl/Bow%20Bar%20worn%20out.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jamesirl/media/Bow%20Bar%20worn%20out.jpg.html)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jamesirl/_57-4.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jamesirl/media/_57-4.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 3000 FPS on January 28, 2015, 11:39:05 pm
I saw that saw on eBay but did not notice the bar being worn.   I think it has already become to expensive for me.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on January 29, 2015, 12:02:14 am
Keep looking. New stuff comes up. Might be a year but you'll find what you are looking for?
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: srcarr52 on January 29, 2015, 10:05:13 am
SRCarr, a member here can rebuild your bar hard face areas or re-make the mount area to fit your saw?

He can straighten and also build up and redress the chain slots.

I can hard face them with stellite and regrind the groove. I can also mill in bar mounts.


http://youtu.be/XWI154npVGw
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on January 30, 2015, 11:01:42 am
Evaluation of a used bar on Ebay.

This used bar was originally marketed for the Mac 10 and 600 series saws. It measures 14" across the radius and is 20" from the end of the slot to the tip of the bar. It is .050" and uses 85 driver links of 3/8" .050" gauge chain. It sold for $150 on Ebay in January 2015. It is a Oregon style D-176 mount with a 8mm wide slot. This bar was intended to be non reversible so the mount pattern is confusing for the oil hole (which is on the other side of the bar) is not seen. This bar is missing the guards. The Stellite is in good shape around the radius and the bar is straight. The label is a warning to read the instructions for proper use. The label has no model number or manufacturer information.

Another point of evaluation is that the seller did not make mention of the missing guard, the condition of the Stellite is shown more or less as a matter of chance(?) Sellers generally seem to fail to show much more than a casual picture of the bar with important factors like the typical wear area condition and straightness of the bar ignored?

The D176 mount also fits the typical 3500/3450/3750 Poulans without modification. I have a bar identical to this one and my mounting slot was widened from 8mm to 9mm (+.040") and the oil hole was moved out to align with the oil grove as on a Oregon D009 (big Husqvarna) .
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on January 30, 2015, 12:02:30 pm
This is the same model bar as in the previous post. Notice that it has been dolled up. Pretty and like new? You cannot see the condition of the Stellite hard face?

Notice the one sided D-176 mount and this time the seller showed the mounting side of the bar and the oil hole.

8mm=.315"   .3125" = 5/16"
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on January 30, 2015, 01:46:56 pm
Christmas Tree Bar

Referred to as a brush bar. This one is from a Homelite 4-20 of the late 1950's. The diameter across the radius is 8" and the bar is 24" long from the end of the slot to the tip. At this time there are two of these bars in the Ebay database and neither mentions the gauge however, it's likely .050"? One nice thing about a bow bar is that they are not pitch dependent. You can run whatever pitch common saw chain you desire for there is no tip sprocket.

This would work well on a 3 cube or 50 cc chainsaw? It sold for $36 a couple weeks ago.

Looking at the picture, this old rusty bar has good Stellite around the radius. At first glance it is bent on both sides? But, this is a "belly" to help keep the chain in the slot. Take notice of the brass stop or dog.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 3000 FPS on January 30, 2015, 10:18:59 pm
Did all bow bars come with a guard, or does that depend on the saw and design of the clutch cover.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on January 30, 2015, 10:22:30 pm
AFAIK most at least had the top guard. But you probably noticed the brush bow in the post above was never drilled for a guard?

The seller gave me a top and bottom guard for my bar but I plan on only using one on the top. Or at least try it that way? The bar was drilled for guards top and bottom.

The two guards I have are identical.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on January 30, 2015, 10:48:20 pm
The fact that the brush or Christmas tree bar didn't have holes for guards probably has more to do with the fact that the bar was made in the late 1950's instead of the early 1980's like the others?
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on February 02, 2015, 11:56:00 pm
More Bar Evaluation
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jamesirl/_57-5.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jamesirl/media/_57-5.jpg.html)

This bar is the same brand as the other broad 14" bars bars but is a little older in that the slot is in the middle but is reversible.

One additional thing to take notice of is the Stellite that has been added to the mouth of the bar at the corners. I have seen this on several other bars of this brand whatever it is.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jamesirl/_57-6.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jamesirl/media/_57-6.jpg.html)
It happened to come from a early Pre-chain brake 61cc Stihl 041 which places it in the late 60's to early 1970's?
The only problem with a middle slot is that a lot of the bar is higher on the mount which means more modification to the chain cover and chain plates.

This seller must be reading this thread? The following are pluses for the buyer's evaluation of the bar?
He didn't refinish the bar
He shows a close up of the saw side of the mount with the oil hole
He shows a close up of the Stellite hard face overlay (The shiny - non rusty rail edges on the radius of the bar) and its condition.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jamesirl/_57-7.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jamesirl/media/_57-7.jpg.html)

In the description, the seller says exactly which saw it was mounted on when he obtained the bar and his evaluation of the bar's condition. This seller knows exactly what he has and is asking top dollar for it? Though this is a nice bar, there is no mention of gauge. Personally, the gauge wouldn't be so important to me. I'd just use a chain the right gauge to fit the bar.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 3000 FPS on February 03, 2015, 01:05:29 am
Well I bought a bow saw and should have it by the end of this week.   I will post a picture of it when it get it and test it out.
This will be the first one of these for me.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on February 03, 2015, 01:29:28 am
You'll have to tell us all about it after you cut with it some?

It didn't get out of the teens today so needless to say, I didn't go outside.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 3000 FPS on February 03, 2015, 01:38:13 am
It was petty decent today.   I will be going into town tomorrow and picking up another trailer load of what looks like elm to me.   
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on February 03, 2015, 01:51:49 am
A house where my parents and I lived in the late fifties and my mother lived there into the 80's, there was the most beautiful American elm tree. There are no trees at all on that property now. The elm most likely died but I understand a storm broke up all the other trees and they were removed in the early 90's.

I planted a bunch of Chinese elms some 42 years ago. I think there were originally 48 of them. I removed some for one reason or another (some died). There's only a couple dozen left? They burn good in the fire place. When I first built here, there were no trees for a good ways. I planted the Chinese elms as a break. Now there are trees everywhere.

First the chestnut trees got worms and then there was the Dutch elm disease. Now it is the ash trees. There were pine problems for a while too. All in the last 60 years or so.

I happened to come across Dean's Poulan 245A with a bow on You Tube. Seemed to run pretty good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2yKzBfJZ7o
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 3000 FPS on February 03, 2015, 10:15:22 am
The Poulan 245A bow is what I have coming.   74cc, plenty of power for a bow.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on February 03, 2015, 11:05:18 am
That's why I put that video up there.

The 245A should make a nice firewood saw.

This is Brad Snelling's 245A. The chain cover and top handle are from a 306. He must have sold it? New decals . . .

(http://photo.blsnelling.com/Chainsaws/Poulan-245A/IMG2459/907442581_yboz4-L.jpg)

(http://photo.blsnelling.com/Chainsaws/Poulan-245A/IMG2466/907442887_F6WAF-L.jpg)

(http://photo.blsnelling.com/Chainsaws/Poulan-245A/IMG2476/907443088_JEjZj-L.jpg)
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on February 03, 2015, 11:19:56 am
A very nice original looking Poulan 245A bow saw

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jamesirl/_57-8.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jamesirl/media/_57-8.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 3000 FPS on February 03, 2015, 06:16:28 pm
A very nice original looking Poulan 245A bow saw

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jamesirl/_57-8.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jamesirl/media/_57-8.jpg.html)
Yep that is the one.    Can't get nothing past you guys.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on February 03, 2015, 10:39:50 pm
I think you did good!  Enjoy
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 3000 FPS on February 03, 2015, 10:54:15 pm
Thanks Jim we will see how it runs when it gets here.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on February 06, 2015, 03:44:12 pm
More on Bow Bar Selection

If you are planning on using your 60-70cc Husqvarna, Dolmar, or Stihl chainsaw made in the last 20 years with a bow bar, you need to select a bar that can be mounted low or hanging down so as to get away from as much of the brake as you can. Otherwise, you will need to remove the brake.

A person with some steel fabricating experience can adapt his bar to fit this way if necessary. The preferred positioning would be to align a conventional Husqvarna D009 or Stihl D025 mount bar along the top edge of the bow bar and trace the needed slot and oil hole positions over to the bow bar? This would make the oil hole to chain groove situation work out to your advantage. You would weld up and refinish the existing mounting holes.

The first (white) 14" bar picture is of the later model McCulloch/Poulan bar layout that I've talked a good bit about. It only mounts one way. To mount on a Husqvarna or Stihl you will need to widen the slot and move the oiler hole higher.

The second (red) 17" bar was intended for a Homelite Whiz. It has a very broad front face. But is also very broad in the mount area. It is highly likely that your brake mechanism would need to be removed to use this bar with the slot in the original orientation. In my opinion, this bar should be forgotten unless you have a need to buck large diameter logs and you have a 90cc saw.


Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on February 06, 2015, 04:08:12 pm
Look out Stihl 044's & MS440's

This is the same manufacturer's 14" bar as the white one in the above post but it is set up it says for Stihl mount. Notice how it mounts hanging low to avoid brake handle interference problems as much as possible? Notice the stop spur has recently been moved to the other side. However the medium Stihl mount (D025) is 10mm wide and this mount looks like it is wobbled out excessively on one side?

Notice in the third picture is the same design 14" bar with a Stihl D025 slot in the middle. This bar will be more problematic to use on your Stihl.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: fuzz1500 on February 10, 2015, 09:31:34 pm
I would love to have a Husqvarna with a bow bar . I keep searchin !! I find them interesting....and they look handy in the right application .
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on February 10, 2015, 09:52:40 pm
It is not so much work to make the later McCulloch / Poulan D176 type mount fit your Husqvarna. It is described for the D009 type Husqvarna mount in one of the previous posts.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on March 15, 2015, 05:37:44 pm
A local guy wanting to sell a General Chain Bar brand clearing brush bow bar came to me last week. The bar has never been mounted nor had a chain on it. The chain groove is .050" - I tried chains on it. It appears to be several years old. Has the medium Stihl mount. Orange paint with a black spur and the extruded aluminum guards. I'm going to try to use it on my nice 026 PRO. I'm not anticipating having to cut the chain cover top but if I do, I have a extra used one I can cut.

There's a "620" stamped in the mount area. This brush bar just happens to be 21" from the end of the slot to the tip. It is 8" across the radius but to measure inside the spur or stop to where the chain cutter would be across the radius is a good 6". So I would venture to say that the nominal working diameter is considered to be 6"? This bow bar has full guards top and bottom. If the top guard was shortened, I think you could get 7 1/2" out of it?
 
This must be what's left of General Chain Bar Co of Tigard, OR? Tigard is a suburb of Portland where the company in the link is located. The bars are the same.
http://www.chainbar.com/products.html

The bar came from a horse trade swap with Guido last year this time. Don't know where Guido got the bow bar but he had a few of them that day. This was the best looking of the bunch.

I bought a dirty Stihl 55R weed whacker from Guido while we were there. Guido said he thought it didn't run but it ran perfect when I got home. I used it several times last summer and have not had to put string in it. Cleaned up nice with Fantastic spray.

Here is a S25DA (The same S25 that was in a earlier post in this thread Sawman Dave Harsh) with an old clearing bar without the bottom guard. Appears to be at a GTG? Part of the point of the video is to show the 6" diameter typical cutting capacity of the bar and how he handled the 10"-11" wood as well as how the small saw handled the bar. A nice thing about hard nose bars is they don't care about the chain pitch as long as the gauge is right. 3/8", .325", or 3/8" LP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3XfizaFCEc
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on March 16, 2015, 06:35:51 pm
I fitted my bigger 14" radius bow bar to my Husqvarna 371 this afternoon.

I had to cut the top of the clutch cover back 3/4" more than what it already had been cut. I did it with a 8" flat smooth file.
The chain plate - I cut the front top lip off back about 1 1/4". This was done with the same file
The brake mechanism plastic cover - I had to trim the top front lip off with my pocket knife.

(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/3woodsaws/bow6-2.jpg) (http://s220.photobucket.com/user/3woodsaws/media/bow6-2.jpg.html)

The chain was a new Stihl RS 3/8" X 85 DL. The bar had been setting around for 30 years and though I sanded the groove out somewhat - when the chain went around in there it took out a lot of surface rust. The bar seemed to oil well. There were several start - stop and re-adjustment of the front tension screw situations. I never made the chain as tight as on a sprocket tip bar.

After I thought the bar had cleaned itself up pretty good, I made a half dozen bucking cuts in silver maple. I was well pleased and there was no problem in the power department with the 371. Just like in the You Tube videos.

As I was wiping off the 371 and bar, I noticed that the paint had turned brown around the front radius and especially near the spur. Not to worry, the paint will probably be gone around the radius after the first good use anyway?
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: Eccentric on March 16, 2015, 08:59:25 pm
(http://photo.blsnelling.com/Chainsaws/Poulan-245A/IMG2459/907442581_yboz4-L.jpg)
Brad's saw picture here for illustration.  Not my saw...

I recently picked up a Poulan 200/300 series bowsaw clutch cover and bow like what's on Brad's saw here for my 245.  Got a 14" Poulan bow bar (with top & bottom guards and the spur) on the way too.  Was listed as being from a Poulan 5400.

My cover is missing one of the special 'tube' type  bar nuts that go with these covers.  I also don't have the taller handlebar and matching bracket.  Hoping my saw will be usable with the bow and the regular height handlebar.  If needed, I'll make a mounting bracket and will modify an XL-12/etc handlebar from a parts carcass to approximate the profile of the factory bowsaw handlebar.  I doubt I'll find the actual OEM bowsaw bracket and handlebar................but ya never know...

Those special bowsaw bar nuts have a tubular section that passes through the bowsaw clutch cover (which has stud holes that are bored larger to allow the tube section to pass through).  That tubular section is internally threaded.  The IPL shows two thicker bar spacer plates.  The bow bar mounting section and the bowsaw clutch cover are both thicker than their regular chainsaw counterparts.  That in conjunction with the two thick spacer plates most likely are the reason for those special bar nuts.  Hoping I can find a second one.

Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on March 16, 2015, 09:16:44 pm
You might be able to buy a barrel nut at the hardware and turn the hex off the part that goes through the cover?

3000FPS has a 245 that is more original than Brads conversion. Brad's bow saw parts came from another Poulan 306. Brad's 245 was originally a regular bar saw.

One nice thing about bow saws is that they are a fabricator's dream.

I'm sure you will enjoy it when done for a bow saw is great for bucking.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on March 16, 2015, 09:25:03 pm
This is 3000 FPS' 245A. Notice the longer guard? But the spur is from a Mac?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jamesirl/_57-8.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jamesirl/media/_57-8.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 3000 FPS on March 16, 2015, 10:08:51 pm
Real nice looking saw there Aaron.    I have not run mine yet I measured the bar and it shows .058 and the chain that came with it is a .050.  I have not bought another chain for it yet and there are some other things I want to check.   

I do have a question, is it normal to have two thick spacer plates slide on over the bar studs before the bar goes on.   
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: Eccentric on March 17, 2015, 01:29:06 am
Roger the saw in the picture I put there is Brad S's.  That same pic is up earlier in this thread.  All I have so far is a bowsaw clutch cover and a bow bar for it (and a 'regular' 245 to put it on).  Will be piecing together (and/or fabricating) the bits I need to make it work.  I do plan on using it when bucking firewood.  Been wanting to setup a plunge bow saw like that for years.  Tired of bending over all the time to buck firewood. 8)

Jim pointed out the longer guard section on your clutch cover (vs Brad's).  My cover is like yours, with the longer guard section.  I hadn't noticed that Brad's cover is shorter.

Jim that's a good idea re fabricating a bar nut from a barrel nut by turning off part of the hex.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on March 17, 2015, 05:54:38 am
I had a Dolmar 111i with a .058 regular bar and It had .050 chain the majority of it's life. I had used it for while before I figured out the miss match.

No one stocks .058 chain around here.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 3000 FPS on March 17, 2015, 10:00:28 am

I do have a question, is it normal to have two thick spacer plates slide on over the bar studs before the bar goes on.   


So I went on line and found an IPL for a Poulan 245a bow saw attachment.   To answer my own question it does show the two plates as being there.    So that is normal for these saws.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: srcarr52 on March 17, 2015, 02:17:39 pm
The guards in the picture are made of 16 gauge aluminum and are painted silver for some unknown reason? They come in different gauge thicknesses and are manufactured as an extruded 10' or 20' length of aluminum that is cut off to the proper length.

These guards may be extruded but I could easily bend them up from 9-11 gauge aluminum sheet.

I could also make the spurs from steel or aluminum, bent or machined from billet.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: Cut4fun . on March 17, 2015, 02:50:46 pm
Jim any pics of what you got going on up there?
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on March 17, 2015, 03:46:12 pm
Here are a couple pictures of my Husqvarna 371 with the bow bar mounted.

I still need to drill and bolt on the upper guard and I need to do a little more clearance on the top of the clutch cover.

When you are running the chain around, the slack is on the top of the mouth of the bar. So as the chain rises up, it is hitting the clutch cover the way things are right now. You can see where the cutter hits in the second picture. Also in the 2nd picture, you can see where the original cut out was in the clutch cover and where I cut it back farther (needs to be a little more). Also you can see the relief in the chain plate and brake mechanism cover if you look closely.

Enlarge the picture to see the detail . . .
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: Cut4fun . on March 17, 2015, 04:54:31 pm
Looks nice.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on March 17, 2015, 05:16:36 pm
Some more theory observances in the operation of your bow bar and common sense . . .

In the above picture two posts above, the chain is 40 F and almost tight on the bow bar. But to run the saw, the chain heats up going around the radius. The shorter the radius, the more heat. Observe the burned paint on the rail lips of the bar at the tighter radius points?

After starting the 371XP, in short order, the chain will show slack at the bottom rail at idle. So a compromise of adjustment must be made between the chain being too tight when first started cold and being slack enough to jump the rails after a few cuts?

Though likely more than 30 years old, this bar was unused and had never had a chain on it. It was originally a D176 mount and intended for a 600 series Mac, The bar mounting slot was widened and the oil hole moved to be a D009 mount by some Georgia guy in his back yard shop. As the bar gets a little time on it, maybe the differential chain length between cold and running may be less pronounced?
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 3000 FPS on March 17, 2015, 05:34:17 pm
Good info thanks Jim.   Your clutch cover looks like mag, if you need any welding on it let me know.  It would be no problem.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on March 17, 2015, 05:39:50 pm
Yes the side cover reacts more like Magnesium than Aluminum/Zinc to the file.

Also the chain hitting the top of the cover seemed to not be that detrimental to the sharpness of the cutters.

When I get everything clearanced and adjusted, I'll touch up the chain on the 511A grinder.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 3000 FPS on March 17, 2015, 05:49:57 pm
I thought it would be really cool to weld a chain gaurd up at an angle and stop with it flush at the front of the clutch cover.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on March 17, 2015, 05:57:55 pm
That would be neat just like on the Poulan 300 series. No one else would have one for a Husqvarna 371XP?
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 3000 FPS on March 17, 2015, 06:02:41 pm
That would be neat just like on the Poulan 300 series. No one else would have one for a Husqvarna 371XP?

Yep.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on March 18, 2015, 06:26:05 am
The guards in the picture are made of 16 gauge aluminum and are painted silver for some unknown reason? They come in different gauge thicknesses and are manufactured as an extruded 10' or 20' length of aluminum that is cut off to the proper length.

These guards may be extruded but I could easily bend them up from 9-11 gauge aluminum sheet.

I could also make the spurs from steel or aluminum, bent or machined from billet.

Good to know of a good source for these parts if necessary.

The spurs are harder to come by than any other part of a bow bar.

Although most 14" high bow bars have only a half guard on the top, the smaller 6" high clearing bars for cutting brush and Christmas trees are more often fully guarded top and bottom due to the nature of their use.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on March 28, 2015, 03:12:22 pm
I've cut some in the wood pile with my 19" X 14" size bow bar on my Husqvarna 371. A 372 size power head on this size bar might be a little on the over kill size. A good 60cc saw will pull it fine.

A cautionary observation . . .

My big bow bar just has a hand guard about half way up the top of the bow. The wood pile I was into has all diameters of silver maple from 4' and shorter. It is just a random pile and not stacked. I cut up some of the 4' long stuff into three pieces. As I was cutting, I observed the curve of the bow opposite of the spur or dog getting close to other pieces of wood. There is a good chance of a kick back if you let the other side of the bow touch something. For this reason, I wouldn't be cutting into a pile of wood? So be careful and have your wood spread out on the ground enough so your bar can cut as intended.

Due to the wide breadth when cutting with a bow bar in a fallen tree top or around a lot of brush, In addition to a potential kick back, there is a good opportunity to get "whipped" upside the head or across your left forearm with part of a vine or a long thin limb. Around here the woods are full of multi-flora rose vines. The thorns on one of those would work over your forearm or the side of your face real good if the vine was picked up by the back side of the bar.

For this very reason, my little #620 Commercial Bow Bar (8" dia clearing bar w/Stihl mount) has full guards on both the top and bottom sides of the bar. The clearing bars are typically used to cut off mesquite or sage brush or the little volunteer red cedars that pop up like weeds or even grape and multi-flora rose vines. You can just reach in with the tip of the bar and knock them off at the main stem. The picture below is the NOS clearing bar as received.

Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: Eccentric on March 28, 2015, 03:57:52 pm
Good info Jim.  I know a few guys with scars from bow bars...
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on March 30, 2015, 07:32:52 pm
Today was a little more agreeable with me weather wise and I attached my NOS Commercial Chain Bar 620  (Clearing Bar) to my Stihl 026PRO.

It went right on with no modifications to the Stihl 026PRO. The clutch cover cleared as well as the inner chain plate. Even the chain catcher at the bottom was OK.

It looks like the bar is going to need 82DL LG72 chain?  I'm going to shorten the top bar guard some before putting it back on with new screws.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: Cut4fun . on April 01, 2015, 07:50:36 pm
After running Jim's 371xp in some maple today with the wide bow bar.  All I can say is wow how fast it cut.  No bogging and not slow like others I have watched at gtg's. 

I will say I am not comfortable running a bow bar though.  Just something wrong in my mind going through a log bucking  with the tip.


(http://chainsawrepair.createaforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4337.0;attach=12410;image)
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on April 12, 2015, 11:08:46 pm
Poulan 245A Unique Bow Detail

A couple of you have this saw. The bow bar, top handle/bracket, & clutch cover were factory offerings on a couple Poulan models such as the reed valve 59cc 306 and 74cc 245 back in the 70's.

This saw was for sale on Ebay. It is a nice looking example and possibly pretty original? The pictures may come in handy? I have other pictures but I thought these would help those of you converting a regular bar saw? Notice the two plates between the Bow bar and the saw and how the top handle attaches differently with a bracket than the regular saw because of the extra height of the bow bar? Also the bar nuts are special long reach barrel nuts needed because the bow bar is spaced outboard by the two plates one of which appears to be newly made in these pictures.

Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 3000 FPS on April 13, 2015, 01:36:57 pm
I was looking at my 245 and with those double spacers in there it seems like the clutch and sprocket have to stick out a ways also.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on April 13, 2015, 05:05:36 pm
That looks like at least a quarter inch??
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 3000 FPS on April 13, 2015, 08:24:09 pm
That looks like at least a quarter inch??

I agree.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on April 13, 2015, 10:53:33 pm
I think it is time to look at the 245A IPL some more about the clutch area?
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 3000 FPS on April 13, 2015, 11:30:51 pm
I looked at an IPL for the 245 and the spacers are normal on a bow saw.    What I do not know is there a difference in the clutches that determine how far they go on or is there a spacer that is used.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on April 13, 2015, 11:54:17 pm
The #0420 bow bar attachment detail is in the 306A IPL on page 6.  And there is a specific bow bar spacer #23226 in front of the clutch.

I can mail the 245A manual to you or just page 6 from the 306A IPL which includes the 0420 bow bar attachment? But you may already have it? It is easy enough to find on the net. Look at Barret's or Chainsawr.

www.poulan.com/ddoc/POUI/POUI1977_USen/POUI1977_USen_63617_.pdf   (306 IPL includes page 6)

The special handle bar is #22054 and the handle bar bracket on the clutch side is #11073
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on April 17, 2015, 11:21:19 am
It is rather warm outside today but with a heavy fog that is supposed to lift and break up. Everything is soaking wet.

I fired up my 026 PRO with the NOS brush bar today.

I happened to find a loop of Oregon 72 LGX that was 83 DL. It had been on my Husqvarna 371 before I put a bow bar on it.

Though 82DL would have been better, there was enough take-up room to make the 83DL chain tight enough to run. 

This bar has set around for more than 30 years and though it was never used, there was some rust in the grooves.

Also I found two tight places in the rails at the beginning of the radius top and bottom. I couldn't get the chain in there.

I opened these up enough for the drivers to go in by driving an electricians screw driver in the tight places until I got the tight places opened up enough for the chain to go in the groove.

Then after I oiled it down with WD40 I drove the chain around the bar several times with the electricians screw driver behind a cutter and tapping the screw driver with a small ball peen until everything felt like it should.

Starting up the chainsaw, the chain ran around perfect with no problems at all. Acted like it was supposed to but the oil was brown.

I made a few bucking cuts on the ground and the brush bar cut like it should.

I had to cut the tapered part of the top guard off to clear the clutch cover but other than that, both guards fit fine.

Wiped it all off and put it away. I'm Happy.

(http://chainsawrepair.createaforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4337.0;attach=12659;image)

(http://chainsawrepair.createaforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4337.0;attach=12748;image)
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 3000 FPS on April 17, 2015, 11:40:57 am
I have the IPL for the 245 Jim thanks.   
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: Eccentric on April 17, 2015, 03:22:13 pm
I have the IPL as well,  but thank you for the offer and the great info Jim.  That brush bow setup looks great.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: Cut4fun . on April 25, 2015, 12:07:44 pm
This one just sold 400 or best.  Poulan Pro 655 with bow

(https://scontent-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11008549_1056942370986551_9168133569805712398_n.jpg?oh=f0a3d7d675ac997caf437f6a2933f13f&oe=559E6090)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/11149524_1056942460986542_1773887347890679670_n.jpg?oh=9c478b44893bf4e7ce8836dbb72aa471&oe=55CDD02E&__gda__=1436173465_ee657bc8f2d5c19487718cfedaf31a7a)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/11182087_1056942517653203_4922735343512524592_n.jpg?oh=f9b5cb4603d0227dc60a2b70bc4b7f9c&oe=55D44942&__gda__=1436159272_1f7a753919bda6e8fc45694fc48ad25d)
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on April 25, 2015, 12:20:26 pm
Same bar I have

That P65 will give that bar a whirl
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: Cut4fun . on April 25, 2015, 05:18:33 pm
Same bar I have

That P65 will give that bar a whirl

That bar didnt need anymore then that 372 was putting out.   :o :o  :P
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on April 25, 2015, 07:28:20 pm
Here's a video of that set up. As you can see, there is no problem in the power department.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf-XSqHz148
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on May 03, 2015, 05:36:46 pm
I've been bucking firewood today.

When using these to block firewood, they both work the same way. They are just big and little.

But as discussed previously, the 21" X 8" bar is a brush clearing bar (the reason for the full guards) & often used to cut Christmas trees for market. The little bar has Oregon 3/8" LGX72 X 83 DL.

The larger 19" X 14" bow bar on the Husqvarna 371XP has Stihl 3/8" X .050" X 85 DL RSC.

Getting ready to put them away.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 3000 FPS on May 03, 2015, 11:26:43 pm
Nice looking saws.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on May 08, 2015, 12:30:48 pm
Small Bow Bar by General Chain Bar  is/was for sale on Ebay - presented here for documentation . . .

This is a rather small bow bar being apparently 20" overall length from one end to the other and 7" diameter at the tip.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jamesirl/Bow%20Bar%20Brush%201.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jamesirl/media/Bow%20Bar%20Brush%201.jpg.html)

In chainsaw terminology, this brush bar is most likely a 16" X 7" when measured from the end of the mounting slot to the outer tip. Looks sorta cute?

It has a 8mm slot and is supposedly set up for a MAC with a Oregon D276 pattern which fits some Poulans too? Notice the large oil hole and how it intercepts the chain groove?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jamesirl/Bow%20Bar%20Brush%202.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jamesirl/media/Bow%20Bar%20Brush%202.jpg.html)

The bar originally had two guard mounting holes top and bottom that were close together at the saw. The owner came across two like new longer guards and drilled two additional holes out close to the spike holes to make the bar more like the current Chain Bar Repairing design.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jamesirl/Bow%20Bar%20Brush%203.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jamesirl/media/Bow%20Bar%20Brush%203.jpg.html)

Below is how it originally looked without the extra guard holes. As you can see from this unpainted picture, the bar has good Stellite on the rails
It is hinted that this bar may be .058 gauge?

To use this bar on your 40 or 45 cc saw, the bar would be a good candidate to run Stihl PS or PS3 chain.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jamesirl/Bow%20Bar%20Brush%204.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jamesirl/media/Bow%20Bar%20Brush%204.jpg.html)

Keep in mind that though this is one of the smaller bow bars you will see, it has enough metal in the bar to throw your balance very bar heavy. In actual use this is almost immaterial as bow bars are typically used in the vertical position with most of the weight resting on the wood. 

If you are computer savvy, these pictures are as big as your screen if you rt click & nose around a little and you need to see them in more detail.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on May 08, 2015, 01:01:21 pm
Another bow bar company has popped up on the Internet and they are located in Eugene, Oregon. Their product line is much like that of Chain Bar Repairing in Portland, Oregon. Both companies offer new small bow bars and repair of all sizes and types of chainsaw bars.

http://www.mercuryequip.com/bowbar.html

http://www.chainbar.com/products.html
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 3000 FPS on May 08, 2015, 01:17:00 pm
Nice information Jim.    It makes me want to convert one of my saws over to a bow.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on May 08, 2015, 02:07:21 pm
Guido Salvage might still have several small brush bars if someone is in the market for one? They are NOS

I believe the one in the middle bottom is mine that is on my Stihl 026?
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: Eccentric on May 08, 2015, 02:13:16 pm
That D276 bar was intended for 10-series Macs.  You could probably use it in a K041 mount Poulan such as a PP380.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: Cut4fun . on May 08, 2015, 03:04:40 pm
  You could probably use it in a K041 mount Poulan such as a PP380.

Roger owns a 3750 bow saw already  :o , he just fixed someone else's rednecking.  ;) :D :D
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 3000 FPS on May 08, 2015, 04:34:10 pm
  You could probably use it in a K041 mount Poulan such as a PP380.

Roger owns a 3750 bow saw already  :o , he just fixed someone else's rednecking.  ;) :D :D

After a little welding and a few spare parts here and there that saw sure does get the job done now.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on May 17, 2015, 12:32:20 am
Here is my favorite type Bow Bar. (the picture is from Ebay) This particular example is a typical 14" dia X .050" gauge bar that has the D009 reversible mount. It would work well with your 60 - 70cc power head with a minimum of alteration of the brake and clutch cover. I think, in this case, that the slots are actually 3/8"?

This bar is presented here as an example for what a home fabricator guy can do with the 14" diameter bow bar. Though this bar was done this way at a bar shop as the tension hole and slots appear to be punched?

This mount setup was based on centering the tension hole in the mount area then positioning the slots and oil holes with proper spacing.

Also, you can see on this bar that the Stellite is good all the way around the radius through the paint.

Take notice that the guard is from another bar and either the holes in the bar or the guard must be re-drilled to match them up.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on May 17, 2015, 01:11:51 am
Here's another 14" diameter bar that is the same brand and mount as in the previous post. However, this one is .063" gauge.

There is a close-up of the mount and you should take notice that the tension hole and slots are punched.

Many of my posts in this thread are actually related to the fact that there are currently no new 14" diameter bow bars being manufactured.

If you want a bow bar for your modern day chainsaw and you find one in like new shape and with a mount pattern for your power head, it will likely have a higher price?

My point is to offer you the knowledge to buy a cheaper - fits nothing - bar and change the mount area for your power head. To give you the knowledge to know what the newer designed bars (80's) look like, to identify wear problems, and what's good and bad designs.

By bad designs I'm talking about the impracticality of a bar 20" long with a 17" or 19" diameter face.

The spur type shown in the last two posts seems to work better for me blocking firewood laying on the ground. The spurs that stick straight out the front have to penetrate the ground to get all the way through the trunk or limb if it is laying on the ground. The cast aluminum Poulan design seems OK too. However, if you plan on using your bar in a brush clearing situation, the spur that sticks out to the side is troublesome as it hangs up on other brush.
 
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on May 30, 2015, 10:16:46 pm
Went to the local GTG today. Here is a picture of "Bird Dog" trying out my 371 bow saw. The pictures are by "Dexter Day". "Guido Salvage" had a Poulan 5200 there with the same brand and size bar. The pictures are huge if you nose around a little?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jamesirl/Bow%20Saw%20371%20Bird%20Dog.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jamesirl/media/Bow%20Saw%20371%20Bird%20Dog.jpg.html)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jamesirl/Bow%20Saw%20Guido%20Salvage%20Poulan%205200.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jamesirl/media/Bow%20Saw%20Guido%20Salvage%20Poulan%205200.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on May 30, 2015, 10:53:02 pm
The pictures were too big and I had to put them on Photo Bucket. It took a few minutes.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on May 30, 2015, 11:07:34 pm
Here is Guido Salvage using my Stihl 026 with 8"dia brush bar at the GTG today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slpCI3YZGm0

Guido also ran his 5200 with a 14" bow bar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE2tK08tgrQ
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: Rookie1 on July 24, 2015, 08:48:28 am
Here are a couple of videos.
https://youtu.be/PE2tK08tgrQ
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: Rookie1 on July 24, 2015, 08:50:23 am
http://youtu.be/slpCI3YZGm0
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: Cut4fun . on August 14, 2015, 11:01:03 am
@660magnum  guy wants $50 and shipping

New stihl bow bar.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on August 14, 2015, 12:48:47 pm
That's a perfect beauty. Looks never used? A must have for someone with a spare 044 or MS-440.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on August 14, 2015, 12:54:48 pm
A 039 or MS-390 would likely get the job done?
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: Cut4fun . on August 14, 2015, 01:50:16 pm
That's a perfect beauty. Looks never used? A must have for someone with a spare 044 or MS-440.

I was thinking of you and a 660 066.  It is new he says never used. 
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: Cut4fun . on August 14, 2015, 02:03:03 pm
Going by the part number for bar it would seem it would be the large mount stihl 084 088 076 etc. 3002 650 4702  30026504702   You think that is the case?
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on August 14, 2015, 04:52:03 pm
If the lead number is of the 084 family then it is a large mount Stihl like you say.

Like too big for a 066 even if the slot was welded up and remade?
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on October 04, 2015, 02:23:54 pm
My older son used my bow saws the last two week ends on his 11 acres and he thinks they are the greatest thing that ever was for blocking firewood lengths from trees laying on the ground.

He says it's like a hot knife through butter!
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: Cut4fun . on October 04, 2015, 03:21:18 pm
My older son used my bow saws the last two week ends on his 11 acres and he thinks they are the greatest thing that ever was for blocking firewood lengths from trees laying on the ground.

He says it's like a hot knife through butter!

One down by the lake?
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on October 04, 2015, 05:24:07 pm
It is 1/2 mi NE from the place you remember. It is just around the corner. You still hear the race cars on Saturday and Sunday. This property has more white pine than hard woods. The other place was strong in beech and cherry with a streak of hemlock. The home is 20 years newer than the other place.

The new place in spite of having a lot of white pines has enough hard wood in its 11 acres to keep him in plenty of firewood. The woods are not as mature in this new place. The trees are only some 35-40 yrs old from when it was a corn field. The terrain on this property is not quite as extreme as the other place.

Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: treeslayer2003 on October 04, 2015, 06:13:24 pm
If the lead number is of the 084 family then it is a large mount Stihl like you say.

Like too big for a 066 even if the slot was welded up and remade?
for 50 bucks............a machinist friend could fix that up? longer guards be nice also. i'd like a bigger/longer bow, at 6' i still have to bend over a little with mine.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: jmester on October 04, 2015, 06:26:28 pm
Looks to me like a 3002 mount bar for sure. But like already said for 50 bucks that is a great deal. Even if you have to make the slot to fit a 3003 mount.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: treeslayer2003 on October 04, 2015, 07:45:59 pm
wonder if there is enough meat left to cut another slot for a low mount? if i had the extra coin right now i'd be worrying Kevin for where it is lol.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: Cut4fun . on October 04, 2015, 08:10:26 pm
Last I knew when I got that pic it was in NC.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on October 04, 2015, 08:40:36 pm
Weld up the existing slot, finish off with a disk grinder, and place a regular bar with a mount pattern like you want, aligned with the top of the bow bar, and trace the pattern of the regular bar mount onto your bow bar. This will make a low mount bar where you do not need to butcher the cover.

You can mill out the slot on your Bridgeport, oh that's right, you don't have a Bridgeport? So drill holes along the slot and file out with a file.

Make your new oiler hole etc.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: Cut4fun . on October 08, 2015, 01:17:02 pm
New bow bars. Looks like clearing?  http://www.mercuryequip.com/bowbar.html
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on October 08, 2015, 01:49:24 pm
That big one looks nice but I bet it has a nice price too?  First new manufacture wide bar I've seen. That one would be mighty nice on a 60 - 70 cc saw. With the slots made like that you could get away with not having to cut out the chain cover.

There's two companies in that area of Oregon that make the narrow bars and mine is made by the predecessor of the other company. It fit my Stihl 026 without any modification what so ever. It was a 24" one and I already had a like new 83 DL chain that fit it.

Every firewood cutter should have at least one bow bar chainsaw.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: 660magnum on October 08, 2015, 01:53:17 pm
Keep in mind that the narrow brush clearing Christmas tree bars have a "Belly" or curve in both rails to help keep the chain in the slot.
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: Cut4fun . on October 08, 2015, 09:03:18 pm
More new bows http://www.southernforestryproducts.com/pages/cutting_bars.html
Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: Cut4fun . on May 13, 2019, 04:59:08 pm
Just seen these 2 poulan bowsaws and thought the round one was alittle different.

Title: Re: Bow Bars Are Perfect For Firewood!
Post by: Al Smith on May 17, 2019, 06:20:41 am
I own one myself ,McCulloch and operated one on a 250 Mac back in the mid 60's cutting fence posts .The deal is with the chain running on a radius it gets more bite .Hook the spike and hit the gas .I'd never run one without the top guard and spike because they do kick back . In the old days all we had was chipper chain . I'll  bet they would fly with chisel .