Chainsaw Repair
Husqvarna - Stihl - Poulan - Jonsered - Dolmar chainsaws and more => Husqvarna => Topic started by: chainsman1 on March 02, 2015, 09:39:34 pm
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Hi,im builting a saw from a box of parts. It is a 181 se. I did put new crank bearings and seals on it. The problem is with the pto seal(oil pump side). When i did install the oil pump with the seal already in it, i had to force it more than normal, when in place it looks like it is stretched a lot,the crankshaft is hard to turn over. I looked many parts diagrams and i found no one that indicates 2 different crank seals. Any ideas?
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If I'm not mistaken the 181 uses the same seal on both sides as the 281 and 2100 .
Because of the wqy the crankshaft is made with a step in it for the seal to ride on you will need to use something like a small plastic tube or thin piece of shim stock to act like a funnel to guide the seal up and over the step or else it's real easy to roll the seal lip . If you roll the lip under it will be hard to pull over plus the seal will leak .
For what it's worth many people have been frustrated installing Husqvarna seals before they discovered this fact .
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I have a 181 also that I need to redo with new bearings & seals, and I have read that there are 2 different sizes of both bearings and seals for the early 181se. To talk to the guy, go to e-bay at auction #281336771058. His username is "tylerwitty". He just might be able to help you. Good luck!
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To my knowledge the seal that was different on the early 181's was the flywheel side seal. The oil pump side seal should be the same for all years of this model which is the same as the 281/288.
Like Al said, there is a step on the crank which you have to get the seal over, you can create a funnel with a thin piece of plastic or carefully use a pick to get the seal lip over the step on the crank.
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To my knowledge the seal that was different on the early 181's was the flywheel side seal. The oil pump side seal should be the same for all years of this model which is the same as the 281/288.
Like Al said, there is a step on the crank which you have to get the seal over, you can create a funnel with a thin piece of plastic or carefully use a pick to get the seal lip over the step on the crank.
You're 100% correct. The PTO side seal is the same for all saws in the 181-288 series. FW side seal on early 181's is smaller (same seal as the 61-272 saws). Later 181's and all 281/288 have a FW side seal that's the same as the PTO side seal.
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Just trying to learn more about the husqvarna 181 se. All I know is that the thin ring 181 made good racesaws.
Guessing the 288 topend would be a direct swap?
husky 181 http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.nsf/ed1d619968136da688256af40002b8f7/365801b9b6112c6788256b52001b3340?OpenDocument
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@HolmenTree = The 181 SE was called the "new concept" saw when introduced in 1982. One of the best if not the "highest power to weight ratio" saw at the time, with all the good handling ergonomics and thermal efficiencies with their new "power flow" piston. It wasn't until 4 years later in 1986 that Stihl answered with their 064AV.
But if we go back to 1976 the saw that revolutionized the chainsaw industry was the Husqvarna 162 SE. From the outside it looked exactly like a smaller version of the yet to be born 181 SE. This saw came from before the 1978 AB Electrolux acquisition period and along with the 2100 introduced in 1975 was solely Husqvarna. Some say the fire that heavily damaged Husqvarna's plant and then moving into a newer larger $3 million plant in 1974 changed the companies future for the good.
Another note when everyone else was thinking about installing chain brakes the 2100 and 162 already had the best design fully adjustable chain brake even compared to todays standards.
Willard.
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Yes a 288XP top end is a direct swap. By 1976, McCulloch had chainbrakes available on most models too.
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@Spike60 = Willard is right about the 181 and 162 being groundbreaking designs. They both had 20 year runs, and their basic design philosophy is still being used today by most everyone. I don't think of these saws as "old", but as still comtemporary designs that are a generation or two back. I think in terms of Modern, Old, and Antique.
It's kind of like Weimedog pointed out; so much of this discussion depends on what you mean by "old", and most of us have a slightly different view. To me, a Jonsered 49SP could be called old; due not just to it's actual age, but to it's basic design architecture. But run one, (and I do regularly), and it really doesn't feel like an old saw. Some saws like the 630/670 and 266/272 family just hit the mark so well that they are still held in high regard. But it's not necessarily an old vs new thing; it's just a great saw. I think the 2171/372 family that replaced it was a noticeably better design. Guys absolutely love them, and I never hear them wish they could still buy 670's and 272's. That's not always the case. The 385/390 is a great saw, but guys who ran 288's still mourn the fact that they can't get them anymore. So a 372 guy would say that the newer stuff is better, while a 288 guy would say he prefers the older saws.
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Husqvarna 181 service manual workshop manual http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CEwQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mymowerparts.com%2Fpdf%2FHusqvarna-Service-Repair-Manuals%2FW8600001.pdf&ei=eXEXVcOHCaLHsQSLyIDICA&usg=AFQjCNEHLjjiwyFGiuP2dZuMMv799UmS9Q&sig2=CQzjqIS2pXuuEkCQXaxwLw&bvm=bv.89381419,d.cWc&cad=rja
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181SE 1987 $659.00
Engine Make: Husqvarna
Engine Size Cubic Centimeters: 81
Engine Size Cubic Inches: 4.9
Dry Weight: 15
Bar Oiler Type: Automatic
Bar Length: 24
181SE 1986 $659.00
Engine Make: Husqvarna
Engine Size Cubic Centimeters: 81
Engine Size Cubic Inches: 4.9
Dry Weight: 15
Bar Oiler Type: Automatic
Bar Length: 24
181SE 1985 $659.00
Engine Make: Husqvarna
Engine Size Cubic Centimeters: 81
Engine Size Cubic Inches: 4.9
Dry Weight: 15
Bar Oiler Type: Automatic
Bar Length: 24
181SE 1984 $650.00
Engine Make: Husqvarna
Engine Size Cubic Centimeters: 81
Engine Size Cubic Inches: 4.9
Dry Weight: 15
Bar Oiler Type: Automatic
Bar Length: 24
181SE 1983 $624.00
Engine Make: Husqvarna
Engine Size Cubic Centimeters: 81
Engine Size Cubic Inches: 4.9
Dry Weight: 16
Bar Oiler Type: Automatic
Bar Length: 24
181SE 1983 $650.00
Engine Make: Husqvarna
Engine Size Cubic Centimeters: 81
Engine Size Cubic Inches: 4.9
Dry Weight: 16
Bar Oiler Type: Automatic
Bar Length: 24
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I'm a 288XP guy and I agree with Spike......................although I prefer a 272XP to a 372XP as well (and wish we could still get 'em here). 8)
My three favorite European saws are the 272XP, 288XP, and 2101XP. The 288XP and 272XP are still being produced in Brazil. Wish the 2101XP still was too. A few of us nuts are looking into getting new 288XP's from Brazil. So far, it's too expensive for most of us (looking like over $1300 by the time all is said and done...........OUCH). Might yet be a way to shave some $$$ from the total cost.
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I'm a 288XP guy and I agree with Spike......................although I prefer a 272XP to a 372XP as well (and wish we could still get 'em here). 8)
My three favorite European saws are the 272XP, 288XP, and 2101XP. The 288XP and 272XP are still being produced in Brazil. Wish the 2101XP still was too. A few of us nuts are looking into getting new 288XP's from Brazil. So far, it's too expensive for most of us (looking like over $1300 by the time all is said and done...........OUCH). Might yet be a way to shave some $$$ from the total cost.
Everyone can pitch in for my plane ticket and I'll go down during the annual Carnival and bring back a dozen saws... :)
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So does the 281 181 288 all weigh about the same PHO? About 16.7 to 16.11 give or take
I raced a 281 with 181 top at Webster 2010. Just cant remember the feel etc.
(http://www.pbase.com/wyk/image/137564858.jpg)
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I'm a 288XP guy and I agree with Spike......................although I prefer a 272XP to a 372XP as well (and wish we could still get 'em here). 8)
My three favorite European saws are the 272XP, 288XP, and 2101XP. The 288XP and 272XP are still being produced in Brazil. Wish the 2101XP still was too. A few of us nuts are looking into getting new 288XP's from Brazil. So far, it's too expensive for most of us (looking like over $1300 by the time all is said and done...........OUCH). Might yet be a way to shave some $$$ from the total cost.
Everyone can pitch in for my plane ticket and I'll go down during the annual Carnival and bring back a dozen saws... :)
That'd cut the cost down..........................assuming you could get those saws past customs. We need to research this further Adam......
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So does the 281 181 288 all weigh about the same PHO? About 16.7 to 16.11 give or take
I raced a 281 with 181 top at Webster 2010. Just cant remember the feel etc.
(http://www.pbase.com/wyk/image/137564858.jpg)
From what the scales say, there's only a 4 ounce or so dif between a high top/HD filter 281/288XP with the dawg mounted front AV spring and the low-top 288XP Lite (which is basically the same saw as the low top 181/281 except for 2mm of bore). Seems to me like that should be greater. That spring mount/bracket is heavy by itself, and that HD top cover has a lot more plastic in it. Guess it adds up to 4oz. I oughta weigh that spring and bracket.
I really like the feel of these saws, especially the low-tops. My high-top 288XP feels like a 5-cube class saw should with a 32" b/c. To me a low-top saw with a 24-28" b/c feels like a 372XP or 385XP with the same length b/c (talking weight/bulk). I want to set up a low-top saw with a 28-30" b/c (maybe a LW).
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I want to set up a low-top saw with a 28-30" b/c (maybe a LW).
When and IF this goes through. Just maybe ;)
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Digging again.
I was thinking of using the 181se to make a 288. Maybe I shouldnt.
copy pasted info = All parts are interchangeable. Some things to note are the 181 may have a non governed carb and the cylinder is a little higher quality and not made by Mahle. Gilardoni
The 281 had a option of a high top HD air filter setup, but you can put the parts on the 181.
I swapped a 288 cylinder onto a 181 a while back and when I took off the 181 cylinder I almost put it back on because it was that much better quality. 2 ring piston, ports are clean with no casting marks, more cooling fins. I'll keep it for when I toast the 288 top end.
I have rebuilt a few 181's recently and also have quite some parts from a 281.
That doesn't make me an expert though but the differences I have noticed are :
- 181 has thin ring piston, the 281 has the classic 1 ring piston
- 181 has old style chain brake, the 281 new style
- 281 has spring mounted spike, the 181 doesn't. The fuel tank is therefor slightly different at the front end (allows for spring plate fixation)
- different spikes
- different thottle linkage and carb lever.
But they are basically the same saw, all the other parts do interchange.
The 288 is the same saw as the 281, only it has a bigger P/C (54mm instead of 52 mm piston).
I've mounted the front AV spring of a 281/288 on a 181 tank. You just have to take a little off the mounting plate to fit into the slot on the tank.
Also something to note, the aftermarket chain brakes don't fit very well on the 181 case. There is a little rubbing on the brake band so you have to take a dremel and clearance that area to allow the brake band to move further away from the clutch.
181 carb has a metal linkage to the throttle trigger where the 281/288 use a arm contacting a roller setup. It's the same carb style so you can swap the throttle shafts.
There is also a difference in the muffler deflector/cover setup. The 181 has a complete muffler cover on the front where the 281/288 has the just the tie strap setup with the case.
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181se piston
(http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/jwalken/sept%2010/DSC_0030.jpg)
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copy pasted =
281/288's have a carbs have a dump valve that opens with vaccume and let's more fuel in the limit the RPMs of the saw. Sometimes the spring gets weak in these and causes issues but they are easily bypassed. Limited carbs will have a large brass threaded plug on the left side of the carb in-between the throttle and choke shafts.
brass gov plug 281
(http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/jwalken/sept%2010/004.jpg)
(http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/jwalken/sept%2010/005.jpg)
281 piston
(http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/jwalken/sept%2010/007.jpg)
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copy pasted =
Just to add a little more information about 181. The thin ring model had a smaller compustion chamber than the thick ring. The thin ring was also called the low friction ring. It did not seem to have as much compression when you cranked it, but it was there when the saw was running, and actually made a little more power. If you put a thick ring piston in the small combustion chamber cylinder the starter was a bear to pull over. It had a lot of low compression because it was not escaping past the low friction rings. In actual use I have noticed very little difference in performance between the 181/281 and 288. (Until you get to very large wood.)
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Good deal. Thk for posting
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Now you see why I was interested in that saw Kevin. 8)
The governor valve (on the 281/288 and many other saws with governed Tillotson HS carbs) isn't opened by vacuum however. It is opened by vibration. He is right that they are problematic. Many of us block them off as a matter of course. I have done several (including two on 288XP's), and will do several more soon.
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copy pasted =
In actual use I have noticed very little difference in performance between the 181/281 and 288. (Until you get to very large wood.)
Now you see why I was interested in that saw Kevin. 8)
The governor valve (on the 281/288 and many other saws with governed Tillotson HS carbs) isn't opened by vacuum however. It is opened by vibration. He is right that they are problematic. Many of us block them off as a matter of course. I have done several (including two on 288XP's), and will do several more soon.
The guy I found that info from in my last post is from Calif too. From the sounds of it I wont be putting a 288 topend on it. I will just leave the 181 topend on it and test against my 800v and 505.
The brass gov I find in 5000's 550's etc. I just use a BB to block off. Think it was Adam or someone else said they use carb welch plugs to block off.
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@3000 FPS owners FS pics
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Thanks Kevin.
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copy pasted =
In actual use I have noticed very little difference in performance between the 181/281 and 288. (Until you get to very large wood.)
Now you see why I was interested in that saw Kevin. 8)
The governor valve (on the 281/288 and many other saws with governed Tillotson HS carbs) isn't opened by vacuum however. It is opened by vibration. He is right that they are problematic. Many of us block them off as a matter of course. I have done several (including two on 288XP's), and will do several more soon.
The guy I found that info from in my last post is from Calif too. From the sounds of it I wont be putting a 288 topend on it. I will just leave the 181 topend on it and test against my 800v and 505.
The brass gov I find in 5000's 550's etc. I just use a BB to block off. Think it was Adam or someone else said they use carb welch plugs to block off.
Yep. Some guys use Welch plugs. I use a .25" disc of aluminum cut from a beer can with a hollow punch.
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I tried to defeat the gov on my 2100 but evidently did it wrong .It's got enough though without fiddling with it .
Now the 281 in my shed belongs to a trimmer bud who had a181 that would out run it and got stolen. I have no idea except it was stock but would hang with a real good running 066 .
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So was there 181xp 1 ring pistons like the 281 piston? See a guy talking about his 181 xp tear down and 1 ring.
I had thought all 181 were 2 thin ring pistons.
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There was no 181XP. I have seen no 181SE IPL's with single ring pistons. Have seen IPL's from 1982 through 1985 with 2-ring pistons. The first ones have different part #'s for those rings than the later IPL's. From what I understand, the first 181SE's had two thin rings, while the later 181SE's had two thick rings.
The 281XP IPL's I've seen (first is dated 1986) all show the single ring piston (with one thick ring). That ring has yet another different part #.
http://www.husqvarna.com/us/support/download-manuals/?query=181+chain+saw&types=I&brands=
http://www.husqvarna.com/us/support/download-manuals/?query=281+chain+saw&types=I&brands=
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Thanks
I noticed the 181SE I bought has XP on the top cover on it like the 268xp I had.
That other guy just called his 181 a 181xp with 1 thick ring.
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There was a transition period where Husky put SE on the mn/an tags and XP decals on the saws. That saw probably had the piston replaced with a 281 part at some point. It's also possible that his saw was assembled with a 281 slug at the factory. Might have been what was available on the line on that day. IHC did that sort of thing.....
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The 181 arrived. Took it for a quick pull down and look see. Besides the weathered top cover and ccracked clutch cover with missing chain brake. This saw is in great shape underneath the hood. 8)
I pulled the muffler and air filter etc. The piston was nice and wet looking with THIN rings. The pic makes the carbon streak look worse then it appears. Nothing there but the streak eye balling and finger nail test.
Now I cant wait to get some time to put back together to fire it up for a check out. ;D
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g289/doemaster789/2100/h181se%20004_zps4fzamlrj.jpg) (http://s59.photobucket.com/user/doemaster789/media/2100/h181se%20004_zps4fzamlrj.jpg.html)
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g289/doemaster789/2100/h181se%20007_zpsdtszxm4l.jpg) (http://s59.photobucket.com/user/doemaster789/media/2100/h181se%20007_zpsdtszxm4l.jpg.html)
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g289/doemaster789/2100/h181se%20006_zps47xwp3hc.jpg) (http://s59.photobucket.com/user/doemaster789/media/2100/h181se%20006_zps47xwp3hc.jpg.html)
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Looks like you did good Kevin.
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Looks good.
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That piston looked fine to me. Should make a great saw.
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That piston looked fine to me. Should make a great saw.
Still has witness lines across piston. Couldnt even hardly see the streak with the bare eyes. Camera and flash brought it out good.
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Pulled the plug to look at exhaust side of cylinder. Clean as a pin and new looking still. ;D Under top cylinder cover said made in Norway.
Put back together set carb fat and put my 32:1 mix. Sounds sweet at idle.
Question on these, on/off switch. 1 wire and grounds where? On/off switch not working and I see nothing where it would ground switch etc.
http://www.jonsered.ws/181.pdf
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The switch has one spade tab for the wire from the module. Also has a ring tab that attaches to the floor of the carb box section of the case with a small screw. That's where it grounds to the case. Just like a 272XP. Make sure the switch wire is connected to the ign module (which is under the FW cover and air deflector........down near the bar oil cap).
If you don't have that switch, you can use a switch for a 365/372/etc and run a short wire from the ground tab to the case. The two switches are different part numbers.
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Kevin does that saw have a governed carb? Some 181's didn't. The gov valve will be hard to see........on the clutch side of the carb right next to the choke shaft.
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The switch has one spade tab for the wire from the module. Also has a ring tab that attaches to the floor of the carb box section of the case with a small screw. That's where it grounds to the case. Just like a 272XP. Make sure the switch wire is connected to the ign module (which is under the FW cover and air deflector........down near the bar oil cap).
If you don't have that switch, you can use a switch for a 365/372/etc and run a short wire from the ground tab to the case. The two switches are different part numbers.
Thats what I thought. I see the ring tab but no screw holding it down and dont see a hole for screw. Maybe switch has slide over it.
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Kevin does that saw have a governed carb? Some 181's didn't. The gov valve will be hard to see........on the clutch side of the carb right next to the choke shaft.
Will check later. Done for today.
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The switch has one spade tab for the wire from the module. Also has a ring tab that attaches to the floor of the carb box section of the case with a small screw. That's where it grounds to the case. Just like a 272XP. Make sure the switch wire is connected to the ign module (which is under the FW cover and air deflector........down near the bar oil cap).
If you don't have that switch, you can use a switch for a 365/372/etc and run a short wire from the ground tab to the case. The two switches are different part numbers.
Thats what I thought. I see the ring tab but no screw holding it down and dont see a hole for screw. Maybe switch has slide over it.
Thinking hole under the rubber boot in floor maybe.
Any specifics on this screw bolt? Length, M? etc? Can find any info.
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Aaron brass gov screw seen bottom right side.
Also no hole in carb plate area like I am used to for the older switches with circle tab ??? .
There is a hole up higher on the rear of carb area facing out to rear. But no way in heck that switch with circle tab on floor could reach that to use as ground.
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Aaron must be something different about the original 181SE switch.
copy paste below
Does anyone know how to get a On/Off Switch for a 181SE, it looks to be different even than a 281/288 switch, I need a new or a good working used one, thanks.
Just put a single tab 281/288 switch in it. Will need to drill a small hole in the case for a small self tapping screw that holds the ground and switch tight. Just put the new switch in and you will see where you need to drill a hole.
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Earlier when you mentioned that you didn't see a hole for the screw I got to thinking that maybe they had a different switch. Bet it had a spring ground tab that contacted the side/top/bottom of the rectangular switch hole. That would be a crappy design. The screw on the saws that take the common switch is tiny. Small diameter and short. Is the switch hole the same size (width and height) as what you see on newer Huskys? If so, you could either use a 'normal' 272/288/etc switch and drill/tap the small hole needed for the screw, or use a 365/372/etc switch and run the ground wire from the second switch tab to some convenient point on the case.
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This one has the 281 style switch. So will leave alone till I test it out.
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Couldnt leave it alone. ;D
Drilled hole. Shortened up a self tap after test fitting. Used some blue loctite. Switch works.
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Good deal. That's what I would have done.
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(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g289/doemaster789/Projects/echobars%20018_zpsgdwndm3y.jpg) (http://s59.photobucket.com/user/doemaster789/media/Projects/echobars%20018_zpsgdwndm3y.jpg.html)
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g289/doemaster789/Projects/echobars%20010_zps8x65j5by.jpg) (http://s59.photobucket.com/user/doemaster789/media/Projects/echobars%20010_zps8x65j5by.jpg.html)
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g289/doemaster789/Projects/echobars%20016_zpsyzfi87gf.jpg) (http://s59.photobucket.com/user/doemaster789/media/Projects/echobars%20016_zpsyzfi87gf.jpg.html)
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I had to make do for now out back.
32" buried ripping maple with a what looks new untouched carlton full skip chain I got in trade awhile back.
Then 16" buried bucking cuts for fun in 17" to 17.5" maple.
PB blocking pics
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Cool. How'd it do?
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Cool. How'd it do?
Runs perfect so far. IMO could pull more bar.
Cant wait to get back to back comparisons to the other 2 800v 505. IMO the 181 may be stronger feeling already. But wont know till I can runn all 3.
Husqvarna 503534001 replaces 501238801 fuel nipple
(https://www.ereplacementparts.com/images/part_p_616840_2699956995.gif)
https://www.ereplacementparts.com/nipple-p-616840.html
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Looking for a bigger saw for a local. Come across this 181se and 385. Only thing guy wants $500 for two saws, 181 with a top handle saw. Man he must think that TH is a gold mine ;D.
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Yeah that's about a $350 package or pay you to take the TH
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Too bad it's not $500 for the 181SE and the 385XP. In that case, having to take the crap tophandle isn't quite so bad.
I like that old 3-rivet Oregon bar.....
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Yeah that's about a $350 package or pay you to take the TH
I dont know what it sold for, asking 500. But didnt last a hot min, gone.
Racers still after them for perfect 5 cube saws. ;)
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I'm collecting parts for them myself. I might get around to building one this year.