Chainsaw Repair

Chain - Grinders - Filing - Wood Milling - Tools - Welding - Machinist - Mowers - Tillers => Tool Shed => Topic started by: aclarke on March 25, 2015, 11:29:23 pm

Title: Chainsaw dyno
Post by: aclarke on March 25, 2015, 11:29:23 pm
Started building an inertial dyno to help determining changes on saw mods a couple months back in my free time,

basic frame:





(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z329/Aclarke123/Mobile%20Uploads/20150201_160941_zps2dbb04cd.jpg)



Title: Re: inertial dyno
Post by: aclarke on March 25, 2015, 11:33:04 pm
flywheel was cut from two 1" x 16" steel plates and tig welded together.  in hindsight i should have gone with a single 2" piece of steel to make things easier.  Joe was a big help in helping calculate the needed mass.



(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z329/Aclarke123/Mobile%20Uploads/20150205_183345_zps455d7f21.jpg)
Title: Re: inertial dyno
Post by: aclarke on March 25, 2015, 11:34:32 pm
Blanchard ground flat...



(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z329/Aclarke123/Mobile%20Uploads/20150212_064042_zps1d4bcf2b.jpg)
Title: Re: inertial dyno
Post by: aclarke on March 25, 2015, 11:36:24 pm
machine bore on Bridgeport for weld in Taperlock hubs


(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z329/Aclarke123/Mobile%20Uploads/20150216_060915_zps175eb927.jpg)
Title: Re: inertial dyno
Post by: aclarke on March 25, 2015, 11:44:15 pm
lathe was too small to turn the 16" flywheel so I mickey moused a grinder set up.   Had to grind at a slight angle to preserve the weld integrity. this was the first issue with welding two plates. OD was less than .001 off when finished, was surprised.


(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z329/Aclarke123/Mobile%20Uploads/20150222_194242_zps0ab347ba.jpg)



Title: Re: inertial dyno
Post by: aclarke on March 25, 2015, 11:46:51 pm
32 pin sprocket to keep flywheel speed safe


(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z329/Aclarke123/Mobile%20Uploads/20150325_180009_zps9cc83c5f.jpg)
Title: Re: inertial dyno
Post by: aclarke on March 25, 2015, 11:48:24 pm
(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z329/Aclarke123/Mobile%20Uploads/20150325_180238_zps1fc7cf9b.jpg)
Title: Re: inertial dyno
Post by: aclarke on March 25, 2015, 11:49:46 pm
(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z329/Aclarke123/Mobile%20Uploads/20150325_181502_zpsc8e3a0f5.jpg)
Title: Re: inertial dyno
Post by: aclarke on March 26, 2015, 12:03:46 am
Next step will be to mount a Kart hydraulic disc brake to slow the flywheel.   The rotating assembly will then be dynamically balanced. I spun the flywheel up to about 4000 rpm and it was relatively smooth in the vertical axis but when decelerating it would vibrate laterally a small amount then go away and re appear at a lower rpm. likely another issue stemming from welding two plates together.

Title: Re: inertial dyno
Post by: mdavlee . on March 26, 2015, 03:18:21 am
Cool stuff.
Title: Re: inertial dyno
Post by: man of stihl on March 26, 2015, 04:21:00 am
Neat! Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: inertial dyno
Post by: 3000 FPS on April 06, 2015, 01:01:29 am
Next step will be to mount a Kart hydraulic disc brake to slow the flywheel.   The rotating assembly will then be dynamically balanced. I spun the flywheel up to about 4000 rpm and it was relatively smooth in the vertical axis but when decelerating it would vibrate laterally a small amount then go away and re appear at a lower rpm. likely another issue stemming from welding two plates together.


Wow some nice work.  Some great fabrication work there.
I caught a glimpse of your Miller Tig, very nice.


I was wondering if the vibrations could be caused by harmonics since it only seems to happen at certain RPM's.
If so you might have to put a break on it to slow down faster and eliminating the problem.   
Title: Re: inertial dyno
Post by: aclarke on April 06, 2015, 09:53:16 am
Thanks.  Really like the Miller Aerowave, kinda an oddball machine. Inverter/transformer machine.

I ordered the disc brake set, see how it spins with the brake disc installed and figure out if it needs further balance work.  Dynamic maybe?
Title: Re: inertial dyno
Post by: aclarke on April 06, 2015, 10:00:57 am
Could be harmonics with the long shafts?  Need to cut em down to size
Title: Inertia dyno
Post by: aclarke on December 27, 2016, 09:57:11 pm
Started a saw dyno project last year and have made some progress with it recently.  Hoping to be able to accurately monitor small changes such as carburetor venturi size, muffler outlet size etc. Will have intake air temp, exhaust gast temp and cylinder head temp to start with. Still need to make the final mount for the bar and also the brake lines etc.

(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z329/Aclarke123/Mobile%20Uploads/20161227_182134_zpsd6c8mcq2.jpg)
Title: Re: Inertia dyno
Post by: aclarke on December 27, 2016, 10:00:11 pm





(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z329/Aclarke123/Mobile%20Uploads/20161227_182256_zpsktoglyov.jpg)
Title: Re: Inertia dyno
Post by: RoyM on December 27, 2016, 10:10:37 pm
It will be interesting to see how it works. Very nice fab work.
Title: Re: Inertia dyno
Post by: mdavlee . on December 27, 2016, 10:10:44 pm
Looking good Adam!
Title: Re: Inertia dyno
Post by: adam32 on December 27, 2016, 10:17:24 pm
Nice! Did you figure out the balance issue on wind down?
Title: Re: Inertia dyno
Post by: aclarke on December 27, 2016, 10:26:17 pm
Had it Dynamically balanced at one of then local machine shops that does aircraft engine overhauls. (about $90)
Title: Re: Inertia dyno
Post by: aclarke on December 27, 2016, 10:31:45 pm
Second pic on on far right shows a ratchet hub (sprag) so the flywheel disengaged from the saw as soon as power is removed. Was gonna use a Torque limiter from a tractor PTO but decided on this route.
Title: Re: Inertia dyno
Post by: adam32 on December 28, 2016, 10:10:44 am
Sprag clutch...now your talking my lingo...the flywheel goes into autorotation ;)
Title: Re: Inertia dyno
Post by: Cut4fun . on December 28, 2016, 04:04:03 pm
 :o Dang!  :o   8)

Title: Re: Inertia dyno
Post by: Chris-PA on December 28, 2016, 09:03:54 pm
Very nice work!
Title: Re: Inertia dyno
Post by: aclarke on December 28, 2016, 11:42:07 pm
Thks guys. I'll post some more pics thus weekend when I get the Sensors mounted.
Title: Re: Inertia dyno
Post by: 1manband on January 04, 2017, 05:35:30 pm
wish i could weld like that!!!  <<< 1972 cadillac

am doing some testing on a very low cost rpm sensor setup right now <$5 for DIY folks like me.  <<< 1972 volks bug
Title: Re: Inertia dyno
Post by: aclarke on January 05, 2017, 11:54:01 am
Joe, you get the noise issue resolved on your speed sensor test set up?

Adam
Title: Re: Inertia dyno
Post by: 1manband on January 05, 2017, 04:02:35 pm
Joe, you get the noise issue resolved on your speed sensor test set up?

Adam

not as of yet.  getting closer to a clearer signal, literally by moving the sensor closer to the spinning magnet.  hahaha. 

along with noise was also getting harmonics?  maybe that is not what they are called.  multiples of the actual rpm.  if it read 150 rpm, would then get 300, 600 then some wacky 300000 stuff.

for non-electrical minded folks just like me, i am trying my stab at making an rpm sensor.  the rpm sensor is the thing you need to get a homebrew inertial dyno going.  the next step is software that i am using, tweaking the output raw data into a spreadsheet to work out hp and tq.  the software is very basic... and can be used as is........but it is lacking some things i hope to bring to the table.  software as is runs on any laptop.  older ones are better to use with it, imo.  my laptop is 2 (?) years old, and am trying to get the older software to recognize my sensor.

hope to make this all clearer as i go along.

later
Title: Re: Inertia dyno
Post by: Nathaniel Vansickle on January 06, 2017, 10:28:53 am
Joe, you get the noise issue resolved on your speed sensor test set up?

Adam

not as of yet.  getting closer to a clearer signal, literally by moving the sensor closer to the spinning magnet.  hahaha. 

along with noise was also getting harmonics?  maybe that is not what they are called.  multiples of the actual rpm.  if it read 150 rpm, would then get 300, 600 then some wacky 300000 stuff.

for non-electrical minded folks just like me, i am trying my stab at making an rpm sensor.  the rpm sensor is the thing you need to get a homebrew inertial dyno going.  the next step is software that i am using, tweaking the output raw data into a spreadsheet to work out hp and tq.  the software is very basic... and can be used as is........but it is lacking some things i hope to bring to the table.  software as is runs on any laptop.  older ones are better to use with it, imo.  my laptop is 2 (?) years old, and am trying to get the older software to recognize my sensor.

hope to make this all clearer as i go along.

later

take a look at the universal cruise control kits if they are still available. Thats how they worked....magnet hose clamped to the driveshaft with a sensor mounted close by. installed allot of those systems back in the mid 90's.

if you can make your setup convert multiple pulses into a single revolution you could also use a tone ring off an axle and the ABS sensor....ford escapes have replaceable tone rings that are relatively cheap. i may even be able to come up with one of those to send you
Title: Re: Inertia dyno
Post by: aclarke on January 06, 2017, 08:25:38 pm
Great idea Nate! Thank you.
Title: Re: Inertia dyno
Post by: 1manband on January 07, 2017, 07:06:11 pm
Joe, you get the noise issue resolved on your speed sensor test set up?

Adam

not as of yet.  getting closer to a clearer signal, literally by moving the sensor closer to the spinning magnet.  hahaha. 

along with noise was also getting harmonics?  maybe that is not what they are called.  multiples of the actual rpm.  if it read 150 rpm, would then get 300, 600 then some wacky 300000 stuff.

for non-electrical minded folks just like me, i am trying my stab at making an rpm sensor.  the rpm sensor is the thing you need to get a homebrew inertial dyno going.  the next step is software that i am using, tweaking the output raw data into a spreadsheet to work out hp and tq.  the software is very basic... and can be used as is........but it is lacking some things i hope to bring to the table.  software as is runs on any laptop.  older ones are better to use with it, imo.  my laptop is 2 (?) years old, and am trying to get the older software to recognize my sensor.

hope to make this all clearer as i go along.

later

take a look at the universal cruise control kits if they are still available. Thats how they worked....magnet hose clamped to the driveshaft with a sensor mounted close by. installed allot of those systems back in the mid 90's.

if you can make your setup convert multiple pulses into a single revolution you could also use a tone ring off an axle and the ABS sensor....ford escapes have replaceable tone rings that are relatively cheap. i may even be able to come up with one of those to send you

cool idea.  appreciate the offer.  i do not know if the laptop would recognize the abs sensor signal?  the way this software works, it senses the rpm signal through the mic input. it could sense up to 2 different rpm signals, if i understand it correctly.  the rest of the sensors, up to 4 if used, run digitally somehow.  i do not have a handle on exactly how that works right now.

think the abs sensor reads the cogs off the wheel?  don't believe they are magnetic, but not sure.  something that reads magnets, like a crank wheel triggered ignition may work as well?

using a gutted out mic right now for a sensor.  the sensor test setup is attached to my lathe chuck.

the newer laptops use a 3 stripe input plug.  the software is set up for a 2 stripe plug.  going to order a splitter and a couple of spare input plugs to try to figure the pins out for wiring on the connector.  will be a week or so before they come in the mail.


Title: Re: Inertia dyno
Post by: Nathaniel Vansickle on January 09, 2017, 11:49:51 am
ABS sensors are 2 wire and read the tone ring without a power input. ABS sensors create a voltage signal...most generally an AC voltage.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ABS-Tone-Wheel-Ring-Fits-Front-Left-or-Right-Dorman-917-532-/401044171486?fits=Make%3AFord%7CModel%3AEscape&hash=item5d60186ade:g:9q8AAOSwNyFWdcH5&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-ABS-WHEEL-SPEED-SENSOR-FOR-2001-2004-FORD-MAZDA-REAR-LEFT-DRIVER-SIDE-/272130083234?fits=Make%3AFord%7CModel%3AEscape&hash=item3f5c3789a2:g:aZQAAOSwal5YCdO4&vxp=mtr


crank sensors IIRC need external power to function, most are run on 5VDC. again IIRC crank sensors are generally 3 wire..... 5V reference, ground, signal wire. this may work the best if you can come up with a way to to provide the 5V reference voltage since the sensor is designed to only read a couple triggers in the 800-7000rpm range




I think what your system is measuring is the voltage spikes so an abs sensor sounds more like what you need and they just need a metal tab sticking out to provide a trigger which could easily be made without a tone ring. ABS sensor should provide a much cleaner signal than the gutted microphone but since ABS sensors are designed to multiple triggers i am not sure how irratic it would be with just one trigger and if the RPM would be sufficient  with one trigger to function correctly.

my quick math says an ABS sensor with a stock tone ring probably wont function at the RPM this thing will be doing. I came up with a tone ring having an average RPM of only 677 vs   your rig even if the tone ring was mounted on the jackshaft doing 1/4 the rpms of the saw it would still be doing 5-6 times the RPM that an ABS sensor is designed for. fewer triggers would effectively lesson the rpm that the abs sensor saw but at what cost to signal quality
Title: Re: Inertia dyno
Post by: 1manband on January 09, 2017, 05:26:38 pm
with you....think it would work.  the bolt through hole would also help when fabbing an adjustable mount. 

it has to be sturdy vibration and wobble free from what i have tested so far.  has to hold against magnet pull.  has to be very close, about  .020" or so. 

the reason for the mic or headphones for sensor, is it what was recommended in one of the versions of the software.  another version recommends making a simple wound coil.

hope an electronic whiz could explain the signal better.  have read that there are 2 differing kinds of sensor types.
one is mag to mag.  another uses anything out of iron to mag.  have a couple of links on this i will post.  biggest thing i am guessing is it just has to be clean spike?

found that running my laptop on the charger causes some waves.  60hZ.  maybe this is the same hum you get when running an adapter charger on guitar effects?  on battery power he sig is clean on the laptop.  the mic/headphone is way sensitive, and needs attenuation or it goes off the scale.

no matter what anyone uses.....on a newer laptop, thinking you will need the things i have ordered to make it work to plug them into the laptop.

will post some dirty signals up to show what does not work so well.


Title: Re: Inertia dyno
Post by: 1manband on January 09, 2017, 05:29:39 pm
will post the photos on the "how to board."
Title: Re: Inertia dyno
Post by: Nathaniel Vansickle on January 09, 2017, 05:48:09 pm
just discussing this with the guy in the shop and a buddy that stopped by.

90 jeep cherokee has a 2 wire crank sensor
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-Crankshaft-Position-Sensor-fits-1987-1990-Jeep-Cherokee-Comanche-/232141611967?fits=Make%3AJeep%7CModel%3AWrangler&hash=item360cb7e3bf:g:Q2UAAOSwgQ9VqAdo&vxp=mtr
Title: Re: Inertia dyno
Post by: 1manband on January 09, 2017, 07:49:29 pm
this one is an msd non-magnetic pickup.... little pricey.  triggers off mags on a wheel.

http://www.jegs.com/i/MSD-Ignition/121/8276/10002/-1
Title: Re: Inertia dyno
Post by: Cut4fun . on January 18, 2020, 08:06:56 am
Todd built a dyno for his countervibe projects.

https://youtu.be/0GKus04Np3k
Title: Re: Chainsaw dyno
Post by: Cut4fun on January 27, 2020, 08:21:37 am
Todd showing 360 view of dyno he made.

https://youtu.be/SUlyhjIfGxY
Title: Re: Chainsaw dyno
Post by: Cut4fun . on February 06, 2020, 09:26:44 am
Not a dyno but a very cool tool I never seen before.

https://youtu.be/lja__WPVUog
Title: Re: Chainsaw dyno
Post by: Cut4fun on February 07, 2020, 09:26:25 am
Todd's updated saw tester he is using on those aftermarket 4000 topend. Said he added a gear reduction etc. Plus some new covers etc.