Chainsaw Repair

Husqvarna - Stihl - Poulan - Jonsered - Dolmar chainsaws and more => Cordless Battery OPE - Corded Electric => Topic started by: Cut4fun . on March 13, 2016, 11:51:43 am

Title: Black Decker 20V
Post by: Cut4fun . on March 13, 2016, 11:51:43 am
My wife has ask me to find her a small aka for short people ;) battery powered weed trimmer.

She dont like the hassle of my 2 gas trimmers and having to wait on me to start etc. Then she dont like the trimmers being bigger then her height and the noise.


So the look begins. Whats out there that will not break the bank.  ;D
Title: Re: Battery weed trimmer
Post by: Cut4fun . on March 13, 2016, 11:53:29 am
Searching best rechargeable weed eater   

She said one she is reading about automatically feeds the line out without bumping the head down.
Title: Re: Battery weed trimmer
Post by: Cut4fun . on March 13, 2016, 12:00:51 pm
She ran this across to me. B&D LST420 20V Max Lithium

I countered with this B&D LST136W 40V Max Lithium

OK reading on these 2 I dont like the idea of having to buy their replacement  spools with line. I want to respool myself.
Title: Re: Battery weed trimmer
Post by: Old Iron Logging on March 13, 2016, 12:10:37 pm
Toro makes a nice little 24volt trimmer. We had good feedback on the ones we sold. 1/3 the price of our Stihl cordless. Don't recall the model right now but can get it at work tomorrow.
Title: Re: Battery weed trimmer
Post by: Cut4fun . on March 13, 2016, 12:31:26 pm
Thanks for info Art. Will take a quick look see before heading out today.

I need to get a new  wheelbarrow too.  Wishing for mulching and flower season soon.  Wife just came in and said we lost a bunch of the irises again. Dont understand that with such a soft winter. Unless it was left over from the last 2 die off years.
Title: Re: Battery weed trimmer
Post by: Cut4fun . on March 13, 2016, 12:35:37 pm
Ring a bell?

Toro 51487 24-Volt Lithium-Ion
Title: Re: Battery weed trimmer
Post by: Cut4fun . on March 13, 2016, 03:10:20 pm
Didnt find a Toro to try out for her.
Not a fan of B&D but they were light and adjustable lengths. Sooooo we will see.

After going through them. The Dewalt, Kobalt etc were way to long and heavy just like the gas for her.

I was able to talk her into the model above the lightest one.  Being it was only 1lb more and had 2 batts, adjustment length and some extra power options. 

BLACK DECKER LSTE525 20V Max Lithium   http://www.blackanddecker.com/products/lawn-and-garden/lawn/string-trimmers/20v-max-lithium-easyfeed--string-trimmeredger--2-lithiumion-batteries/lste525

Seen the B&D deal had other options so she may be wanting them to do other stuff with too. Will update once she starts using. But even with it extended all the way out it is almost to short to my liking. She laughed and stated it was made for us short folks. She has it collapsed all the way in for her set up. I just laughed as I stated a dang midget could use it set like that.  :-X :P



(http://www.blackanddecker.com/_Classes/SBDShared/Customizations/Imageresizer.ashx?path=d+sKI3aAzwkDOZ+Fa7HRprJwA1vhV3fjyTYA/Xbf5m9hjP4Rdem9YBCgOdNRgSl0&w=0&h=0&crop=true&defaultimage=fOCRY3ppyyYRjuMlqIDD5tBAhXr0R+atuYMRqucm1aNXpA6WnOMftxzsi7wvHw8WF4YYgbU6VDgWOeOSWoAvEiJe2n1LVk6LuGmXvGMcqk9zvnkVpaw1ispRNnT35FzqzJrdyapo0mbFQPC4538l5g==)


I finally got me a  run flat wheelbarrow I been eyeing too. ;)   Kobalt 6-cu ft Steel Wheelbarrow with Flat-Free Tire

(http://mystore411.s3.amazonaws.com/img/products/lowes/2015-09-13/T090315p02_090315_003_003_p1_img_619726109.jpg)



Title: Re: Battery weed trimmer
Post by: Cut4fun . on March 13, 2016, 04:19:47 pm
@Philbert  I cant find that rechargeable chainsaw thread you did here. The one where you tested and told about each.  I am trying to find out if any was the 20 volt size.

Reason is my wifes weed trimmer is 20V with 2 batts.  Every year she ask me to follow her around and trim limbs to big for the hand trimmers and loopers. So I get the gas out and go.

Just happens to be a black decker 20v chainsaw that weighs just over 7lbs with batt installed.  LCS1020   http://www.blackanddecker.com/products/lawn-and-garden/lawn/20v-outdoor-tools/20v-max-lithium-10-in-chainsaw/lcs1020

They have a top handle looking version and a rear handle. I feel a rear handle best for her to control.
Title: Re: Battery weed trimmer
Post by: Philbert on March 13, 2016, 06:38:52 pm
@Philbert  I cant find that rechargeable chainsaw thread you did here. The one where you tested and told about each.  I am trying to find out if any was the 20 volt size.
Maybe you can check with the site administrator to find it?

 I only looked at cordless tools that were 36 V and above.  Generally, that is what I would advise. I would also generally recommend that you look at the 'family' of tools, in case you decide to add more later, and share the batteries, Chargers, etc. 

In this case, however, I may differ.  I also do not like the long shaft string trimmers. I like the way that my corded, Toro, electric string trimmer feels best.  So maybe you want to buy a 'one off' tool just for her.  Check out the Ryobi tools Home Depot.   You might have better choices than the Black and Decker ones.

Philbert

Title: Re: Battery weed trimmer
Post by: Cut4fun . on March 13, 2016, 07:38:03 pm
@Philbert  I cant find that rechargeable chainsaw thread you did here. The one where you tested and told about each.  I am trying to find out if any was the 20 volt size.
Maybe you can check with the site administrator to find it?

 I only looked at cordless tools that were 36 V and above.  Generally, that is what I would advise. I would also generally recommend that you look at the 'family' of tools, in case you decide to add more later, and share the batteries, Chargers, etc. 

In this case, however, I may differ.  I also do not like the long shaft string trimmers. I like the way that my corded, Toro, electric string trimmer feels best.  So maybe you want to buy a 'one off' tool just for her.  Check out the Ryobi tools Home Depot.   You might have better choices than the Black and Decker ones.

Philbert



LOL at first sentence.  I guess I can go and check threads you started to find it.

Already bought the 20 volt trimmer today.  Now looking at the 10" limb saw that will use the same battery. ;)
Title: Re: Battery weed trimmer
Post by: Cut4fun . on March 13, 2016, 07:46:14 pm
@Philbert  I cant find that rechargeable chainsaw thread you did here. The one where you tested and told about each.  I am trying to find out if any was the 20 volt size.
Maybe you can check with the site administrator to find it?

 I only looked at cordless tools that were 36 V and above.  Generally, that is what I would advise. I would also generally recommend that you look at the 'family' of tools, in case you decide to add more later, and share the batteries, Chargers, etc. 

In this case, however, I may differ.  I also do not like the long shaft string trimmers. I like the way that my corded, Toro, electric string trimmer feels best.  So maybe you want to buy a 'one off' tool just for her.  Check out the Ryobi tools Home Depot.   You might have better choices than the Black and Decker ones.

Philbert



LOL at first sentence.  I guess I can go and check threads you started to find it.

Already bought the 20 volt trimmer today.  Now looking at the 10" limb saw that will use the same battery. ;)

Found it. It wasnt a thread started but a post with pics in a oregon thread you did.  Looks like it was mostly corded and 40 volt cordless chainsaws.

Cut Some Cookies Today

As mentioned, I like electric chainsaws (photos 1,2). I brought the electron group out to breathe and to compare size, design, features, etc.  The Remington (8 amp) is a very lightweight, light duty unit sold as part of a pole saw.  The Sears (12 amp) is almost 25 years old and NLA.  So I only compared cutting with 3, more current models: the Oregon CS1500 (15 amps), a Makita UC4000 (13 amps), and the Oregon CS250 (40 volt).  Each of these has a PowerSharp (3/8 low profile, .050, reduced kickback) chain. I should point out that the Sears originally came equipped with an older version of PowerSharp (a.k.a. 'Barracuda Chain'), and the Makita has been replaced by a newer model (UC4030, 15 amps).

Subjective and informal, totally qualitative testing was done in my secret test facility, hidden in a residential neighborhood, which is fiercely guarded (photo 3).  Temps were 38°F. I used Husqvarna winter weight bar oil.  Wood was 4 to 8 inch diameter birch, cut maybe 6 weeks ago, and 7 inch diameter pine, cut maybe 8 months ago, scrounged from neighbors.  Due to recent temperatures, this wood may have still been frozen when cut. You can see my patent pending log mount/test fixture, cleverly camouflaged as a picnic table (photo 4, 5).

I used a 50', 12/3 extension cord, on a 15 amp GFCI protected circuit, to be sure that the saws had plenty of power, and because I was standing in slushy snow.  All of the corded tools are double insulated.

Philbert
The difference in power and chain speed between the 40 volt battery saw, and the corded electrics was immediately apparent.  While the CS250 was able to cut all of the wood, and certainly offers some convenience being untethered by a cord, it was clearly in another class of saw.  The CS1500 (15 amps, 18" bar) and Makita (13 amps, 16" bar) were very competitive.  Handle spacing was almost identical, except that the Oregon has an angled front/top handle, like Husqvarna saws.  Actual difference in bar length was only 1".

Performance between these 2 saws was also comparable.  I did not do timed tests.  The Makita is maybe 10 years old (a HD rental rescue) with a used PowerSharp chain.  The Oregon is fresh out of the box, with a brand new PowerSharp chain.  So, again, it was not a controlled test.

PowerSharp cuts fairly aggressively, when sharpened (photo 1). Cuts with all 3 saws were very smooth (photo 2).  The PowerSharp chain also noodles well (photo 3)!

There are some objective differences between the corded saws.  The Oregon has a side-winder style motor, and the Makita is an in-line design.  This could affect balance in some situations, and the ability to work in tight spaces (e.g. thick hedges), but was not an issue for this type of cutting.  The Oregon corded saw also has an electric brake: when you release the trigger, the chain stops immediately.  The chain on this Makita coasts, which could be a safety issue.  All 3 saws are equipped with a conventional, lever operated chain brake, similar to those on gas powered chainsaws.

The CS1500 has a surprisingly strong air stream that blows out of the bottom.  I could not figure out where this was coming from at first, but ended up using it to blow off chips.  It also has very large spacing around handles, so that someone with large hands and gloves can easily fit them in there, although, I did not have any trouble grasping either handle with smaller hands.

I am not a big fan of tool-less chain tensioners.  This one was easier to use than several of the others I have tried: a large knob in the center replaces the bar nut, and the large ring on the outside adjusts tension.  I still feel that I can do this more accurately with a screwdriver, and the additional hardware under the cover makes the chain slightly harder to mount.  But this feature is pretty common for a consumer product to remain competitive today.

Bottom line?  I was very impressed with my once-over and this very limited test.  The CS1500 is almost half the price of the Makita (street prices), and cut competitively.  A more objective, quantitative, laboratory test might be to compare it side-by-side with the current (15 amp) Makita model, and with the similarly priced, WORX 15 amp, 18" saw.  But I would feel very comfortable recommending this to a friend.  Equipped with the PowerSharp chain, and the built-in sharpener, this is a good, low maintenance cutting choice, for use in the city, or anywhere near an outlet.

Philbert
Title: Re: Battery weed trimmer
Post by: Philbert on March 13, 2016, 08:14:01 pm
I was on my phone, so had to stick with a short answer.

I have most of the Oregon 40V family: chainsaw, polesaw, string trimmer, hedge trimmer, and leaf blower.  I am pretty happy with each one.  It is really convenient to be able to share batteries and chargers, due to the nature of battery tools, limited run time, cost of the batteries, etc.

If you are planning on getting more than one, it is worth it to check out whole line ahead of time.  Chances are, if you are looking at quality brands, you will choose one tool that you are passionate about (e.g. cordless chainsaw), and find that the other tools compare 'close enough' to justify sticking with one brand/battery platform.  That said, there may be cases where one product offers special features that make a difference.  For example, you may run all 18V DeWalt contractor tools, but find that a certain Milwaukee or Bosch specialty tool is unique enough to buy it with its own battery.

I mentioned the Ryobi line 'cause some of their battery OPE is less expensive, look like they will hold up of a couple of years, and are easy to find at Home Depot. If you are looking at that 10 inch, 20 V B&D saw, you might also want to consider the alligator saw - it will handle brush and small stuff in a way that your conventional saws can't.  Would be worth the review, and might give you new capabilities.
http://www.amazon.com/BLACK-DECKER-LLP120B-Lithium-Alligator/dp/B00AZW9ZL8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1457914195&sr=8-3&keywords=black+decker+20+volt+chainsaw

Philbert
Title: Re: Battery weed trimmer
Post by: Cut4fun . on March 13, 2016, 09:12:25 pm
Good lord dont let her found out about that. She was already asking about the battery powered loppers.  ;)
Title: Re: Battery weed trimmer
Post by: Cut4fun . on March 14, 2016, 12:36:46 pm
She went through both batts using the trimmer today.
So on full power #2 using constantly you get 25mins run time. Using the lower power setting for power saver #1 you get 35mins constantly using.

She was very happy with it and was impressed it was doing more then she expected the little trimmer to be able to do.  Super thick high grasses around bluebird houses and trees.
Title: Re: Battery weed trimmer
Post by: Cut4fun . on March 14, 2016, 12:42:06 pm
Think I will get her own tools in this set up too. The drill etc and whatever else I can find so she has her own stuff. If it all pans out.

http://www.blackanddecker.com/en-us/products/product-stories/20v

 :D the alligator loppers is what she thought was the power loppers. I explained to her what it was. Not on those but yes on the chainsaw and drill.
Title: Re: Battery weed trimmer
Post by: Philbert on March 14, 2016, 02:02:25 pm
So on full power #2 using constantly you get 25mins run time. Using the lower power setting for power saver #1 you get 35mins constantly using.

Were those the 1.5 Ah batteries? I see that they also offer a 4.0 Ah battery.

It's nice to have the larger capacity battery for longer run time.  It's also nice to have at least 2 batteries, so one can be charging while you keep working with the other.  As long as I am spending other peoples' money.  .  . 

If those batteries are hard to find when it is time to replace them, Batteries + can rebuild them. Sometimes it is a good deal.  Sometimes you can find OEM replacements cheaper on Amazon, eBay, etc.

Philbert
Title: Re: Battery weed trimmer
Post by: Cut4fun . on March 14, 2016, 02:06:24 pm
So on full power #2 using constantly you get 25mins run time. Using the lower power setting for power saver #1 you get 35mins constantly using.

Were those the 1.5 Ah batteries? I see that they also offer a 4.0 Ah battery.

It's nice to have the larger capacity battery for longer run time.  It's also nice to have at least 2 batteries, so one can be charging while you keep working with the other.  As long as I am spending other peoples' money.  .  . 

If those batteries are hard to find when it is time to replace them, Batteries + can rebuild them. Sometimes it is a good deal.  Sometimes you can find OEM replacements cheaper on Amazon, eBay, etc.

Philbert

Yep that is the little guys and got 2.

I looked at the bigger one you list above and also a 45min  fast charger for her too. Just worried about the weight of the bigger battery for her.
Title: Re: Battery weed trimmer
Post by: Cut4fun . on March 16, 2016, 06:58:14 pm
Well she now has 4 20V batteries 3 1.5 and 1 2.0 with 3 chargers.  The weedeater, rear handle chainsaw and a drill.

I forgot what it was like to run a chainsaw without AV  :o.  Uses Oregon 90 40DL chain. Guessing 90 is .043. Manual oiler.
The 40V one was auto oiler but then we get into different batts.

She was real happy how light weight the chainsaw was with batt and how light the drill was too. She also said it is so nice to not have to try and start the gas stuff and call you for help. ;D ;) 
Title: Re: Battery weed trimmer
Post by: Philbert on March 16, 2016, 09:09:52 pm
Keep the chain sharp, and it should do well on appropriate sized wood: green stuff 4" diameter and smaller.  Larger stuff with patience?

Oregon Type 90 chain is 3/8 low profile and 0.043 gauge.  For some reason, it says to use a 4.5mm (5/64") diameter file, instead of the standard 1/8" for Type 91 chain (3/8 low profile and 0.050 gauge).  Oregon says the the cutter has a different profile.  I have it on my 10" cordless pole saw (40V), and use the 4.5mm file - it really cuts quite aggressively that way.  Might be worth investing in the odd size file?

You will really appreciate the difference between the batteries.  Let us know how it works out over time!

Philbert
Title: Re: Black Decker 20V
Post by: Cut4fun . on March 17, 2016, 12:37:28 pm
Changed the name of thread to BD 20V since that is the way it went.

Just reading more on chain.  Frawleys carries them for easy ordering.  Oregon PX

90PX040G Oregon saw chain 40 DL 90-40 .043 gauge 1.1mm R40 http://www.loggerchain.com/90PX040G-Oregon-saw-chain-40-DL-90-40-043-gauge-11mm-R40-90PX040G.htm

90PX / R-Series Chain https://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/chain/90PX.htm

90 PX Micro Lite info https://www.oregonproducts.com/pdfs/90PX_ChainSaw_SawChain.pdf

(https://www.oregonproducts.com/images_pro/products/detail_chain_90PX.jpg)

(http://www.loggerchain.com/media/90pxpic.jpg)

Title: Re: Black Decker 20V
Post by: Cut4fun . on March 17, 2016, 12:50:05 pm
For some reason, it says to use a 4.5mm (5/64") diameter file, instead of the standard 1/8" for Type 91 chain (3/8 low profile and 0.050 gauge).  Oregon says the the cutter has a different profile.  I have it on my 10" cordless pole saw (40V), and use the 4.5mm file - it really cuts quite aggressively that way.  Might be worth investing in the odd size file?


Philbert

Making sure I am thinking right, but isnt  4.5mm = 11/64 file?
Title: Re: Black Decker 20V
Post by: Philbert on March 17, 2016, 01:52:09 pm
Making sure I am thinking right, but isnt  4.5mm = 11/64 file?
Thanks for catching that!  Math in my head is not as fluid as it used to be!

I mean to say 5/32 on Type 91 chain, which would mean that the 'next size up' is 11/64 on Type 90 chain.  I try to think of common saw chain file sizes in 32's of an inch, but 1/8 was too low of a starting point - though it might be used as grinding wheel thickness. 11/64 and 13/64 are the more common, 'in-between' sizes.

4/32 (1/8); 5/32; 11/64; 3/16 (6/32); 13/64; 7/32; 1/4 (8/32).

1/8 is approximately 3.16 mm.
9/64 is approximately 3.5 mm.
5/32 is approximately 4.0 mm.
11/64 is approximately 4.5 mm.
3/16 is approximately 4.8 mm.
13/64 is approximately 5.16 mm.
1/4 is approximately 6.3 mm.
5/16 is approximately 8.0 mm.

Good reference:  https://www.pferdusa.com/info/PDF/CSF.PDF

Philbert
Title: Re: Black Decker 20V
Post by: Cut4fun . on March 17, 2016, 02:07:35 pm
I just used that link in a thread earlier. ;)
Title: Re: Black Decker 20V
Post by: Philbert on March 17, 2016, 07:43:45 pm
The Oregon Type 90 chain is also sold in consumer packaging as 'R' chain (maybe pirates buy a lot of it?).  You would buy 'R40' for a 40 drive link loop. I know that Menard's carries some 'R' chain, and some of the B&D cordless tools, but not sure of the R40 package, and I did not see your chainsaw there.

Philbert
Title: Re: Black Decker 20V
Post by: Cut4fun . on March 18, 2016, 04:22:29 pm
Dang I come home today from work and the wife had slayed 10 trees.   :o 8)  She said I love that little saw,  ;) ;D
Title: Re: Black Decker 20V
Post by: Cut4fun . on March 18, 2016, 06:34:30 pm
Black Decker 20V LCS1020 IPL

Title: Re: Black Decker 20V
Post by: Philbert on March 18, 2016, 06:58:27 pm
Black Decker 20V LCS1020 IPL

??? Where are the mice ???

Philbert
Title: Re: Black Decker 20V
Post by: Cut4fun . on April 05, 2016, 02:58:45 pm
After the power outage from the coon the other morning.  I wondered if they made a light that could run off these 20 volt batteries.  Found one that is LED only 70 lumens but says last 11 hours on 1 batt and we have 4 batts.

Yep I got one even though I have ton of flashlights and candles already.  Why not get some emergency use out of those batts just setting there.  8)

https://www.blackanddecker.com/products/power-tools/portable-lighting/portable-lighting/20v-max-lithium-flashlight--battery-and-charger-not-included/bdcf20

(http://www.blackanddecker.com/_Classes/SBDShared/Customizations/Imageresizer.ashx?path=d+sKI3aAzwkDOZ+Fa7HRphuxFhxTSvFcfcinCIUwwmVv1VaLvHZjJtE0yRZLhXhW&w=0&h=0&crop=true&defaultimage=fOCRY3ppyyYRjuMlqIDD5tBAhXr0R+atuYMRqucm1aNXpA6WnOMftxzsi7wvHw8WF4YYgbU6VDgWOeOSWoAvEiJe2n1LVk6LuGmXvGMcqk9zvnkVpaw1ispRNnT35FzqzJrdyapo0mbFQPC4538l5g==)
Title: Re: Black Decker 20V
Post by: Philbert on April 05, 2016, 07:23:53 pm
Now you understand the idea of being 'invested' in a battery platform, or a 'family' of battery powered tools!

Philbert
Title: Re: Black Decker 20V
Post by: Cut4fun on February 22, 2019, 11:09:29 am
After seeing the wife wrestle with my fiskers manual pruner and pole saw. I decided to pick her up a B&D 20V pole saw to go with all he other stuff. Chainsaw, ER LED Light, drill, trimmer,  etc.   

Just ordered the bare tool being she has 4 battery's and 3 chargers already.

LPP120

https://www.blackanddecker.com/products/lawn-and-garden/trees-and-shrubs/woodcutting/20v-max-lithium-pole-pruning-saw/lpp120
Title: Re: Black Decker 20V
Post by: Cut4fun on February 26, 2019, 07:43:28 am
Arrived yesterday and went out for a few mins to let her try it out to see. The cold windchill stopped us in about 5-10mins,  but she loves it.    

Will work great for her needs

Title: Re: Black Decker 20V
Post by: Cut4fun . on May 12, 2020, 01:59:52 pm
Had a idea to put those 20 volt battery to work even more.  New pruner set up for wife.    Got 2 more batts and 3 more tools and 1 of those for me.  1/4" impact driver.

Used the above 20v pole saw myself other day. Sweet. 


Impressed. Cuts are so clean on the fruit trees etc.

Blades I decided on cut both ways.
Title: Re: Black Decker 20V
Post by: Philbert on May 12, 2020, 03:12:33 pm
I have used those pruning style blades extensively, especially in tight, lilac hedges, etc.  The limited stroke length, and the narrow profile of the recip saw, make access easy in restricted places.  Yours also look to have induction hardened teeth.  I like them a lot.

FBut for cutting roots in the dirt I use basic, coarse tooth (e.g. 6 teeth per inch) woodworking blades, including some of the cheaper brands, since that is somewhat 'sacrificial'.

For disaster clean up, where a lot of building debris and tree materials are intermixed, I have used a carbide tipped, 'demolition' blade for cutting both building materials (metal roofing, studs, sheathing, occasional nails, etc.) and limbs up to 8 inches in diameter with a cordless recip saw.

Philbert
Title: Re: Black Decker 20V
Post by: Cut4fun . on August 04, 2023, 09:58:09 am
Bought 3 aftermarket batteries online. They seem to last better then oem ones for use run time. Long term yet to be seen though.

1/3 to 1/2 the cost too.