Chainsaw Repair

Husqvarna - Stihl - Poulan - Jonsered - Dolmar chainsaws and more => Echo => Topic started by: Garfield43 on August 25, 2017, 08:51:26 pm

Title: CS 4400 Very hard to pull.
Post by: Garfield43 on August 25, 2017, 08:51:26 pm
I apologize in advance, this will be a long post.  I do not want to leave out any info that might help.  A little over 10 years ago I bought a CS 4400.  It has been great and gave no problems until now.  It did have a quirk in that when it had set off season the easiest way to get it to start was to pull the plug and give the rope a few pulls to get some gas into the carb and combustion chamber.  After that put the plug back and it would fire right up.  I only mention this because my father in law said it sounded like it might have a valve hanging up.

It had been setting in it's case in the basement for 4 or 5 years and I needed to get it going.  I took the chain in to get sharpened and put fresh gas in it.  I use Echo brand 2 cycle oil mixed just a little more oil per gallon than the instuctions say. I pulled the spark plug out then pulled the rope and the rope did not retract.  I ordered a replacement recoil spring, installed it and a new rope.

I give it a few pulls with the spark plug out then put the plug in.   It is much harder to pull than it used to be.  I had my wife try it incase it is just that I am that much weaker than I was.  She agreed it was much harder than it used to be.  I took off the bar,chain, chain brake and muffler.  The piston and cylinder look smooth and shiney.  The spark arrestor was not plugged,neither was the muffler.  The exhaust port was black but had no carbon build up.  I poured some Marvel Mystery Oil down the plug hole and in the exusat port and let it set a few minutes.  I then pulled the rope a half dozen times.   It pulls smooth and easy with the plug out.  With the plug in it is very hard to pull.

I actually managed to get it to start and run before I pulled the muffler.  I let it run about 10 minutes and then tried to restart it and it was just as hard to pull. After about a dozen pulls it fired back up.

It used to be easier to pull and it used to start on the second pull.  It ran and worked fine when I finally got it started.  I have been all over the internet  and followed all the advice I could find.  I found an exploded parts diagram online.  The only valve I can find is a check valve in the oil tank.  I don't think that is what my father in law was talking about. 

Can anyone here tell me what I should try next?

Thanks
Title: Re: CS 4400 Very hard to pull.
Post by: Garfield43 on August 26, 2017, 02:18:54 am
I have read several hard pulling threads on here and I think I may have found the problem.  I did not use official Echo rope but Koch Industries Nylon Starter Rope by the foot from the farm store.   It may be slightly thinner.  This is what I used. https://www.amazon.com/Koch-5570046-200-Feet-Braided-Starter/dp/B004PDFQCA
It says it is "size 4.5" but doesn't actually say 4.5mm.  I will see if the Echo dealer has any Echo rope.  When I tried to get an air filter from him he wanted more for an aftermarket one than I could get a Echo air and fuel filter and spark plug set off of ebay.
I tore a piece out of the muffler gasket getting the muffler off. The missing piece is stuck to the muffler Should I replace that or will it be ok since I still have the piece?

Thanks again
Title: Re: CS 4400 Very hard to pull.
Post by: 3000 FPS on August 26, 2017, 07:08:42 am
I think you are on the right track by replacing the rope.

As far as the valve is concerned 2 stroke engines that are used in chainsaws have no valves of any kind.   The intake and exhaust is controlled by porting in the cylinder walls.    Some older saws did use reed valves but only on the intake.    I do not believe your saw has reed valves.
Title: Re: CS 4400 Very hard to pull.
Post by: Cut4fun . on August 26, 2017, 09:34:31 am
4.5 is like what is used on the big cc saws. See if you can find 3.5 or 4. Not sure what yours came with.

I dont worry so much about  gaskets on the mufflers.   But if a plastic crankcase saw under muffler I would if it was sending hot exhaust down at it.
Title: Re: CS 4400 Very hard to pull.
Post by: Garfield43 on August 26, 2017, 02:48:14 pm
The manual says to use 3.5mm (.14") rope Echo part # 99944400045 wich has been superseded by part # 99944445000.
The #4.5 I put on it is a little thinner than what was on it.

If I can't get anything from the dealer I may get this.  It says it is 9/64" that comes out to . 140625".
I suspect the dealer in town will have a roll of this, they seem to use Stens parts instead of Echo.
https://www.amazon.com/Stens-146-915-True-Starter-100-Feet/dp/B004HSBKJQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1503771427&sr=1-1&keywords=starter+rope+3.5mm

I assume #4.5 does not equal 4.5mm?  This says it is #4.5 like the Koch Industries stuff did but it list an actual size unlike the Koch stuff.
Title: Re: CS 4400 Very hard to pull.
Post by: mountainlake on August 28, 2017, 07:17:37 am

 If the rope is too small it can wedge in beside itself making it real hard to  pull, also make sure get the spool fully wound but not so much that it comes to the end of the spring which would make the spring break.  Fully wound will pull over easier than less rope on the spool.  Steve
Title: Re: CS 4400 Very hard to pull.
Post by: Cut4fun . on August 28, 2017, 11:02:22 am
I was talking in mm above.

Been trying to find a mm and # comparison chart. Haven't found a good one yet.
Title: Re: CS 4400 Very hard to pull.
Post by: Cut4fun . on August 28, 2017, 11:04:43 am
Bingo out of the blue  :P

Title: Re: CS 4400 Very hard to pull.
Post by: 3000 FPS on August 28, 2017, 11:10:24 am
Good job on finding that Kevin.
Title: Re: CS 4400 Very hard to pull.
Post by: Garfield43 on August 28, 2017, 03:44:25 pm
Thanks for that chart.
According to that the stuff I bought should work.
It is thinner however you can tell by looking.
I won't have a chance to get to the dealer for a few days.
I will let you know if the new rope fixes it.
Title: Re: CS 4400 Very hard to pull.
Post by: leec on September 09, 2017, 12:13:45 pm
Thanks for that chart.
According to that the stuff I bought should work.
It is thinner however you can tell by looking.
I won't have a chance to get to the dealer for a few days.
I will let you know if the new rope fixes it.

Perhaps some part was left out of your recoil rebuild or parts put back in the wrong sequence.  Try taking the recoil off the saw and see if it is still hard to pull, should be very easy off the saw.
Title: Re: CS 4400 Very hard to pull. SOLVED (I think.)
Post by: Garfield43 on September 28, 2017, 12:09:44 am
Sorry it took so long for me to get back to this.

I went to my Echo dealer and paid $3 for 1 yard of the Stens rope like I linked to earlier.  I took off the Koch Industries rope and put on the Stens, then put the saw back together.   Then I tried to start it.  It retracted more often but was still hard to pull.  Then I pulled the plug and turned the saw over.  I would guess an ounce or 2 of gas and oil poured out.  I left the plug out for 10 min then put it back in.  I turned the choke off set the throttle open and pulled.  It pulled easier and revved up, ran a little and died.  Set it for half choke and pulled again and it started and ran.

All the gas in the chamber was making it hard to crank. 

I put all of this up in case some other newbie like myself searches for this later.  I am disappointed that after installing a new recoil spring and rope the stater still fails to retract occasionally.  The saw is at least 10 years old but has been used very little.  I guess as it has aged some part of the plastic has warped slightly.  Oh well it is much better than it was.

Thanks again for all your help!
Title: Re: CS 4400 Very hard to pull.
Post by: sharkey on October 13, 2017, 03:18:12 am
Garfield,
You need to tension the rope.  Take the starter housing off.  With the housing in your hands, pull the rope out one foot.  Place your thumb on the spool so it cannot retract.  Grasp the loose rope in your other hand and spin it around the spool two turns without allowing anything to move other than what your doing.  This adds tension to the spring because you have pulled the rope out, and now shortened the rope up two turns without allowing the spool to turn.  It should retract now perfectly.  I would recommend a Walbro 'wat' kit for that carb too.  Stop by the dealer, he will know which one.  The inlet needle is sticking open flooding the engine.  Replace the gaskets and diaphragms.  Whats up is the older ones melt from the alcohol laced into our gas these days.  If you need help installing the kit, just start a thread.     
Title: Re: CS 4400 Very hard to pull.
Post by: mountainlake on October 13, 2017, 05:45:23 am

 Good advice Sharkey, when putting on new starter ropes when pulling the rope out all the way make sure it comes to the end of the rope before the spring is wound tight.  Steve