Chainsaw Repair

Chain - Grinders - Filing - Wood Milling - Tools - Welding - Machinist - Mowers - Tillers => Wood Working Milling => Topic started by: dpjones on January 16, 2018, 07:10:25 pm

Title: Speed Test
Post by: dpjones on January 16, 2018, 07:10:25 pm
Not to sound like a jerk but I see plenty of cookey cutting to test saw speed on a log, But what about cutting a 16" Oak log for 12ft, milling I guess you'd say. What kinda performance would be needed for a sustained cut? WOT for 10 minutes, that's about  what it takes me in Red Oak of that size.
 Just a thought cause I been milling some 18" and less stuff and wondering how the ported, high compression saws would hold up or do better?

DJ
Title: Re: Speed Test
Post by: mdavlee . on January 16, 2018, 07:22:31 pm
I did a lot of milling with ported saws. Some 26" wide cherry 6' long was 6-8 minutes. I was testing fuels and oils that way. I made an oak cant 12x12 4' long to test fuels. 3/4" thick is about as thin as my mill will cut
Title: Re: Speed Test
Post by: dpjones on January 16, 2018, 08:25:20 pm
That Cherry, was it same as wild cherry here in North Ga.?
Title: Re: Speed Test
Post by: mdavlee . on January 16, 2018, 11:06:49 pm
Yes. Southwest VA area cherry.
Title: Re: Speed Test
Post by: HolmenTree on January 16, 2018, 11:13:39 pm
I never milled with a ported or compression modified powersaw. A stock Stihl 090AV or a stock Husky 395XP is all I use on a 36" Alaskan running square ground chisel bit .404
I milled alot of 16ft 2"x12" DED killed American elm. You won't find much hardwood tougher then thst dead elm.
Good edge on the chain takes me 5 minutes for a 16ft cut making 12" cants.
Another thing I do is mill in winter time when it's -30 below. Carb is set richer for that cold, saw has no chance of overheating, chain runs cooler and boy that extra cold oxygen sure make those saws run nice.

Title: Re: Speed Test
Post by: dpjones on January 17, 2018, 08:03:27 pm
That temperature would kill me,

 but the 660 pop up piston got me thinking, high compression and high rpm's or lower compression and rpm's for the milling or long cuts
Title: Re: Speed Test
Post by: HolmenTree on January 17, 2018, 08:11:08 pm
That temperature would kill me,
You quickly learn how to dress for it and you don't want to be restricted in movement by wearing senseless bulky clothing.

Far better working conditions working in 30 below then trying to stay cool while working  on a hot day.
Hahaha.
Title: Re: Speed Test
Post by: dpjones on January 17, 2018, 08:18:12 pm
I don't have nothing to dress for that kinda weather, I'm southern man or compaired to you, a sissy, what ever, the cold hurts me, 80's and up I start to loosen up
Title: Re: Speed Test
Post by: mdavlee . on January 17, 2018, 10:20:20 pm
You don't want crazy compression starting it on its side with a mill. 185-195 is fine. I've run all kinds of ported ones on the mill. I've milled at 10-100 degrees.
Title: Re: Speed Test
Post by: HolmenTree on January 18, 2018, 09:06:42 am
Big concern for me is the extra heat generated with a too high of a compression ratio on those long cuts at WOT.

Once you try milling with a square ground or filed chisel bit chain,  you will never want to go back to round sharpening.
Title: Re: Speed Test
Post by: dpjones on January 18, 2018, 12:15:05 pm
That was what I was thinking, running hot. That 660 popup piston got me thinking  but I probably got the power I think better filing

I keep trying square filling but don't quite get it yet, it's ok but not what it should be and no one around here that I know of sharpens it
Title: Re: Speed Test
Post by: HolmenTree on January 18, 2018, 01:48:59 pm
That was what I was thinking, running hot. That 660 popup piston got me thinking  but I probably got the power I think better filing

I keep trying square filling but don't quite get it yet, it's ok but not what it should be and no one around here that I know of sharpens it
I start off with a  new loop of square ground .404 chisel bit.The factory 15 degree top plate angle is close enough for milling.
I can go quite a while before I notice it dulling, holds a better edge and faster  from what I'm finding compared to my round filed chain.
Mind you I'm really fussy about keep the wood clean so I don't dull the chain as fast.

I can touch up the cutter's on the Alaskan mill with the flat chisel bit file free hand not too bad.  But after about 3 touchups the angles start to go wonky. Then I gotta switch chains, I then have to file the wonky cutters in my shop in the bench vise then I get the angles back.

I've heard of a few guys on the west coast who have success milling with square ground but one grinds his loops and switches them out. Other guy files free hand.
Title: Re: Speed Test
Post by: mdavlee . on January 18, 2018, 02:50:02 pm
I free hand file on the mill square. I've not had a problem with sane work saw compression on a mill. 200 lbs or less and they do fine.
Title: Re: Speed Test
Post by: dpjones on January 18, 2018, 04:07:15 pm
Right now I only have a square chain for  a 20" and 28" the 28 bar is wore out and the 20 is too short. I may order me a couple new 24" loops and give it try, I can sharpen it fair I guess, but just ain't used to it. Very Slow.

I may be better off with the compression I got, just turned 61, mind is 22, body is 80 something. Still kickin better than some of my old friends

Holmentree, I don't yet know names, I'm David BTW, .404 you say, my two 660's are 3/8, would it do better changed to .404? and I'm talkin about for milling now, I'm not a logger, just trying to keep up my property best I can, take out the dying(southern pine beetles I think) I may loose this battle, it ain't lookin good

Thanks a lot, Ya'll have answered my questions and then some.
Much Appreciated.
DJ
Title: Re: Speed Test
Post by: HolmenTree on January 18, 2018, 05:09:19 pm
Good to meet you David! I'm Willard. I'm turning 60 this Sunday I'm right behind you and good points about the 22 mind and 80 something body Hahaha.

I'm running. 404 on my 395XP-36" and 090AV-36" with a 36" Alaskan mill.
I recommend nothing bigger than 3/8" on a 066/660.

.404 is more durable carries more oil, holds a better edge. But biggest thing it doesn't have stretch problems on the 36" mill like a 3/8" has.

I have to rephrase my last comment about square chisel bit holding a better edge than round filed.
A edge is a edge they round over, but the superior double sided square filed corner is so efficient that even when dulled it still cuts better then a equally  dulled round filed chain.
But having said all that, a square filed edge is flat like a planer knife or hand chisel, makes a strong taper to a keen edge.
A round filed edge is concave and a weaker edge.....

Now to my wonky angles. Everyone knows with a bar/chain mounted in a Alaskan mill you can only file the cutter's from the sprocket cover side of the bar.
You file the left hand cutters normally but the right hand cutters have to be filed downwards into the cutter like you do with a square file.
So I can square file my right hand cutters Ok but on the left cutters the square file has to move upwards like a round file but with a lot more downwards lowering of the file handle.

I saw professional timber fallers square file their falling saws exactly this way and it works fine, just takes practice.
But of course with this filing method the left hand cutters will have a burred edge. Nothing a little piece of hardwood can't scrape off.
Title: Re: Speed Test
Post by: dpjones on January 18, 2018, 06:00:03 pm
OK, stick with 3/8 on my 660 but I'll get some sq. chain, and I got to get a 36" mill and bar for some of the next trees I cut down. My 24 mill will only cut about 18"

Didn't know  the Husky 395 was that more powerful than the 660.

Good to meet you Willard, you and Mdavlee have been a big help to me on this milling.
And others too.

Many Thanks

Title: Re: Speed Test
Post by: mdavlee . on January 18, 2018, 06:38:40 pm
I sharpen near the tip on my mill. I don't have the nose protector piece on there in the way. I set with the saw on the piece I'm milling with the tip in front and file both sides right there. It's easier to file square to me on there than round.

Best I remember when I tested semi chisel and square it was around 35-40% difference in cut speed.

I'm Mike
Title: Re: Speed Test
Post by: dpjones on January 20, 2018, 04:27:38 pm
Thanks Mike,
That cut speed is a big difference. I got to get some sq. chain and a 36" bar and mill or extend mine. I can only cut about 18" slab on this 24" mill, if I adjust farther out towards the sprocket it binds up and won't turn.

I'm going to get some sq chain and do what both of you are telling me.
Thanks again
Title: Re: Speed Test
Post by: mdavlee . on January 20, 2018, 08:15:54 pm
Yeah it was a huge difference in wearing me out too. I could cut a few more slabs in the same time and amount of fuel.