Author Topic: Stihl MS460/461 with 365/372 con rod.  (Read 2976 times)

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Offline EHP

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Re: Stroked MS460/461 with 365/372 con rod.
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2015, 08:05:22 pm »
I put the older 365/372 rod on some of the 272's race saws , if its stroked to 38 mm you pretty much have to run the longer rod , Aclarke is correct to what I have found from putting a longer rod on , it does make the motor produce more torque and helps not kicking the hell out of the intake skirt , On a small intake port its not a huge thing but on a saw the port is widen to the max this longer rod is huge , I have seen racesaws that you can see the shape of the intake port pushed on the intake skirt on the piston, As far as crankcase pressure , yes you are loosing some BUT you can gain some of that back by changing your blowdown timing . If it was me I might think about doing this on a racesaw but if its just a worksaw I would say no to that . Main reason is I just never seem to have crank bearing problems in any of my worksaws . Main thing is oil in the gas
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Offline 1manband

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Re: Stroked MS460/461 with 365/372 con rod.
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2015, 08:20:03 pm »
don't have the time to show some numbers right now.....

quickly........
-crankcase comp. ratio remains the same. 
-port time-area has changed.  because included angle used for the formula has now changed.  also see below.
-conn rod to stroke ratio increase.....good!
-piston speed increased on first 90 degrees of angle, slowed on bottom 1/2.  (maybe a hair more vibration introduced).

imo...none of this above really matters for things that are producing wood chips!






 
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Offline 1manband

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Re: Stroked MS460/461 with 365/372 con rod.
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2015, 08:25:31 pm »
I put the older 365/372 rod on some of the 272's race saws , if its stroked to 38 mm you pretty much have to run the longer rod , Aclarke is correct to what I have found from putting a longer rod on , it does make the motor produce more torque and helps not kicking the hell out of the intake skirt , On a small intake port its not a huge thing but on a saw the port is widen to the max this longer rod is huge , I have seen racesaws that you can see the shape of the intake port pushed on the intake skirt on the piston, As far as crankcase pressure , yes you are loosing some BUT you can gain some of that back by changing your blowdown timing . If it was me I might think about doing this on a racesaw but if its just a worksaw I would say no to that . Main reason is I just never seem to have crank bearing problems in any of my worksaws . Main thing is oil in the gas

would enjoy talking motors w/you sometime.

.....benefit would be that trans lowers un-shrouded a bit.  gotta go. good thread.
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Offline 94BULLITT

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Re: Stroked MS460/461 with 365/372 con rod.
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2015, 10:46:50 pm »
Instead of using a spacer is there another piston that could be used?

Offline aclarke

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Re: Stroked MS460/461 with 365/372 con rod.
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2015, 11:10:38 pm »
Can't think of any pistons much shorter?


Joe, with the dwell time increase is it at TDC and BDC ?   Confused....

Offline srcarr52

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Re: Stroked MS460/461 with 365/372 con rod.
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2015, 10:00:17 am »
Can't think of any pistons much shorter?


Joe, with the dwell time increase is it at TDC and BDC ?   Confused....

Both, but TDC is where it really counts.

Offline aclarke

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Re: Stroked MS460/461 with 365/372 con rod.
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2015, 10:54:58 am »
Ok, that what I thought

Offline mdavlee .

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Re: Stroked MS460/461 with 365/372 con rod.
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2015, 02:04:11 pm »
3mm is almost 1/8". That would be a big spacer. Maybe shave 1mm out of the chamber and then run a spacer for the rest. Would really up compression on them.

Offline EHP

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Re: Stroked MS460/461 with 365/372 con rod.
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2015, 06:01:14 pm »
Gate your thinking pretty good , if your building a saw for any of these GTG's and want to build a saw that is what some guys do , put a longer rod on it and you look like you did less cutting on base of jug or crankcase but you still end up with more compression and make the bigger power so everyone thinks you did some kind of magic to it . You can hide a ton of work in a motor that looks pretty stock but along ways from it  ;D. Biggest thing is you have to build the motor around the fuel your running and the jone it has to do , the shorter the run time  the hotter you can build the motor

Offline 1manband

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Re: Stroked MS460/461 with 365/372 con rod.
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2015, 09:51:09 pm »
first some pics at what is going on.

long vs. short:

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