Author Topic: Stihl MS460/461 with 365/372 con rod.  (Read 2980 times)

0 Members and 75 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline 1manband

  • Nitro Hotsaw
  • *******
  • Posts: 759
  • Karma: 52

  • Total Badges: 22
    Badges: (View All)
    Third year Anniversary Level 5 500 Posts Apple User Second year Anniversary One year Anniversary
Re: Stroked MS460/461 with 365/372 con rod.
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2015, 09:54:02 pm »
approx. 97 deg exhaust opens:

long vs. short
hiatus
Like Like x 1 View List

Offline 1manband

  • Nitro Hotsaw
  • *******
  • Posts: 759
  • Karma: 52

  • Total Badges: 22
    Badges: (View All)
    Third year Anniversary Level 5 500 Posts Apple User Second year Anniversary One year Anniversary
Re: Stroked MS460/461 with 365/372 con rod.
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2015, 09:55:59 pm »
at BDC

hiatus

Offline 1manband

  • Nitro Hotsaw
  • *******
  • Posts: 759
  • Karma: 52

  • Total Badges: 22
    Badges: (View All)
    Third year Anniversary Level 5 500 Posts Apple User Second year Anniversary One year Anniversary
Re: Stroked MS460/461 with 365/372 con rod.
« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2015, 09:57:55 pm »
at about 263 deg ehx. closed

long vs short
hiatus

Offline 1manband

  • Nitro Hotsaw
  • *******
  • Posts: 759
  • Karma: 52

  • Total Badges: 22
    Badges: (View All)
    Third year Anniversary Level 5 500 Posts Apple User Second year Anniversary One year Anniversary
Re: Stroked MS460/461 with 365/372 con rod.
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2015, 10:09:03 pm »
.......  the longer rod shown in these comparison graphs is 4x the TOTAL center to center length of the shorter rod.

all of these graphs above reflect this exaggeration.

had to do this to show some difference in the velocity and acceleration graphs.  ie.  there would be a gnat hairs difference in 3 mm.


hiatus

Offline 1manband

  • Nitro Hotsaw
  • *******
  • Posts: 759
  • Karma: 52

  • Total Badges: 22
    Badges: (View All)
    Third year Anniversary Level 5 500 Posts Apple User Second year Anniversary One year Anniversary
Re: Stroked MS460/461 with 365/372 con rod.
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2015, 10:20:51 pm »
...the piston velocities (and/or acceleration) are not symmetrical around TDC and BDC.   faster and slower, respectively.  hope someone gets my drift.  long rod or not.

find where the actual dwell is.  helpful?  benefit (if any) is elsewhere.


hiatus

Offline 1manband

  • Nitro Hotsaw
  • *******
  • Posts: 759
  • Karma: 52

  • Total Badges: 22
    Badges: (View All)
    Third year Anniversary Level 5 500 Posts Apple User Second year Anniversary One year Anniversary
Re: Stroked MS460/461 with 365/372 con rod.
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2015, 10:40:48 pm »
for what its worth......ccase volume:

using approximate numbers for a 460ish.  i don't have of these saws.  numbers reflect just a guess to show that ccase vol. remains unchanged.

assuming this:
ccase BDC volume = 150 cc
swept volume cylinder under piston = 75 cc
cccase TDC = 150 cc + 75 cc

using the twisted new method:

for a stock rod

= (150 + 75)/(150)
= 1.5
 
adding approximately 6 cc for the stroker plate..........and longer rod

= (150 + 75 + 6)/ (150 + 6)
= 1.48

--------------------
the way the folks who invented this did it this way:

= (volume ccase)/( swept volume cylinder)

stock
= 150/75
=2

long rod stroker plate combo
= (150 + 6)/(75)
= 2.08



hiatus

Offline mdavlee .

  • Global Moderator
  • Nitro Hotsaw
  • *******
  • Posts: 1968
  • Karma: 171

  • Total Badges: 31
    Badges: (View All)
    Level 6 Sixth year Anniversary Fifth year Anniversary 1000 Posts Fourth year Anniversary 500 Posts
Re: Stroked MS460/461 with 365/372 con rod.
« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2015, 05:58:20 am »
Might have to try this 372 rod in a 460. I've got an extra 460 case and stuff here.

Offline srcarr52

  • 6 cube
  • ****
  • Posts: 288
  • Karma: 94
  • Location: IA

  • Total Badges: 22
    Badges: (View All)
    Third year Anniversary Level 5 Second year Anniversary 100 Posts Topic Starter Search
Re: Stroked MS460/461 with 365/372 con rod.
« Reply #37 on: August 06, 2015, 10:44:58 am »
...the piston velocities (and/or acceleration) are not symmetrical around TDC and BDC.   faster and slower, respectively.  hope someone gets my drift.  long rod or not.

find where the actual dwell is.  helpful?  benefit (if any) is elsewhere.

It's easy to see dwell if you overlay the piston position vs. crank angle of the two rod lengths. You'll see that the longer rod stays close to the top of the stroke longer (within 2x squish clearance).

People often miss that the piston forces due to acceleration are decreased with a longer rod. F=MA, so with your example it's a 10% reduction in the force due to acceleration. Which doesn't sound like a whole lot but it's really significant in fatigue life of a part.

Offline mdavlee .

  • Global Moderator
  • Nitro Hotsaw
  • *******
  • Posts: 1968
  • Karma: 171

  • Total Badges: 31
    Badges: (View All)
    Level 6 Sixth year Anniversary Fifth year Anniversary 1000 Posts Fourth year Anniversary 500 Posts
Re: Stroked MS460/461 with 365/372 con rod.
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2015, 12:25:04 pm »
Shaun could you true a crank back up?
Useful Useful x 1 View List

Offline Cut4fun .

  • Administrator
  • Nitro Hotsaw
  • *******
  • Posts: 23744
  • Karma: 664
  • OHIO REDNECK Saw Repair Getter Done
    • Redneck Chainsaw Repair

  • Total Badges: 53
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Nineth year Anniversary Level 8 Apple User Eighth year Anniversary 20000 Posts
Re: Stroked MS460/461 with 365/372 con rod.
« Reply #39 on: August 06, 2015, 02:22:55 pm »
Got a sort of off topic question.  The poulan partner jonsered crankshafts used in the 415 425 445 475 505 2077 2083 660 710 7700 are similar to the husky 371 but with coarse threads.  Saws are built in the husqvarna plant using alot of husky parts.

I have at least 4 of them now with bad big end rod bearings.  Being the cranks are NLA, I am wondering if a redneck could some how push apart the crank to be able to replace the bearing and some how true these back up?

Betting the 372 big end replacement bearings would work?

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
3 Replies
312 Views
Last post April 15, 2011, 10:26:25 pm
by stihlbro
1 Replies
587 Views
Last post August 18, 2011, 12:17:26 am
by Roanoker494
9 Replies
916 Views
Last post November 18, 2011, 05:22:28 pm
by Al Smith
Nemisis MS460

Started by farmboy « 1 2 » Stihl

13 Replies
1374 Views
Last post June 22, 2012, 06:48:06 am
by Al Smith
1 Replies
769 Views
Last post October 22, 2013, 09:19:16 pm
by 660magnum
0 Replies
145 Views
Last post May 16, 2015, 10:41:19 pm
by blueberrymuzik
29 Replies
1502 Views
Last post September 28, 2015, 12:21:17 pm
by aclarke
9 Replies
499 Views
Last post October 09, 2015, 03:04:41 pm
by aclarke
9 Replies
1436 Views
Last post June 30, 2016, 10:59:18 pm
by Al Smith
5 Replies
447 Views
Last post March 09, 2022, 06:22:18 pm
by 3000 FPS