Chainsaw Repair

Husqvarna - Stihl - Poulan - Jonsered - Dolmar chainsaws and more => Jonsered => Topic started by: randy4183 on October 07, 2012, 09:01:08 pm

Title: Jonsered 111s
Post by: randy4183 on October 07, 2012, 09:01:08 pm
 New here but wondering if anybody knows where I can get a rebuild kit for a 111s. Including a piston and cylinder. Any help greatly appreciated
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Cut4fun . on October 07, 2012, 09:04:14 pm
You just missed 2 NOS kits that sold. Sorry. But welcome to the site.  8)
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Stihl 041S on December 07, 2012, 04:37:44 am
Is the cylinder trashed?  It can be recoated.

Piston I might could do.

EBay for rings is the only place.

Perhaps someone could help on that.
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Chris J. on December 07, 2012, 12:22:08 pm
The Jonsereds 111S is kind of a rare saw,  especially in the US,  and parts are hard to find.   OP,  I'm curious to know if you're planning to use the saw on a regular basis,  or run it once in a while for fun?

I see that this thread was started two months ago ;).
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Cut4fun on December 07, 2012, 02:30:13 pm


Perhaps someone could help on that.

All the 111 stuff I knew about in the honey  hole I think you bought.  ;D
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Spike60 on December 07, 2012, 03:19:55 pm
After a few years of looking, I finally scored a nice 111s this past summer. Then................................as is often the case, I got another one last week. Parts are very scarce for these saws. I might have some rings and base gaskets, but there's just not much out there.
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on January 05, 2013, 01:23:10 pm
Hi there, have just acquired Jonsered 111s. Can anyone explain the function of the different controls; knobs to left and right of handle, and knob on top LH side of casing? It will not start; are there default settings for carburetor screws? Any suggestions? Peter
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: 660magnum on January 05, 2013, 01:36:18 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMVBiI_n0eI
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on January 07, 2013, 12:06:04 pm
Thanks 660magnum, that's a help! Now what about the fuel/oil mixture? What ratio and what oil suits best? Peter
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: 660magnum on January 07, 2013, 12:52:17 pm
As old as that saw is they were probably talking 16:1 30 wt motor oil to gasoline?

People are running them now days the same as the more modern saws. I would run whatever you do in your other saws as long as it is not Amsoil 100:1.

I'm a 32:1 guy myself. I've been running Pennzoil air cooled two stroke oil but I'm changing to full synthetic.
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on January 07, 2013, 08:23:36 pm
Hi 660magnum, I'm thinking about spark plug gap. A guess would be 0.030 inches? 30 thou we call that on this side of the pond (England). Good to hear it should run on modern mixture. 50:1 with Stihl oil??
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: 660magnum on January 07, 2013, 08:53:50 pm
That oil and mixture is pretty much a standard for many people. Just make sure it is Stihl ULTRA if you are going to run 50:1

The standard spark plug gap for many years has been .5mm or .020".
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on January 09, 2013, 05:11:08 pm
Attached are factory specs for 111S. Might be of interest!
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Cut4fun . on January 09, 2013, 05:51:56 pm
Attached are factory specs for 111S. Might be of interest!

Nice. Thanks for posting link.


Jonsered 111S
MANUFACTURED BY: JONSEREDS FABRIKERS AB PARTILLE, SWEDEN SERIES OR ASSEMBLY NUMBER: YEAR INTRODUCED: 1973 YEAR DISCONTINUED: 1980 ENGINE DISPLACEMENT: 110cc NUMBER OF CYLINDERS: 1 CYLINDER BORE: 56mm PISTON STROKE: 45mm CYLINDER TYPE: Aluminum with chrome plated bore INTAKE METHOD: Piston ported MANUFACTURER ADVERTISED H.P.: 4.8kW @ 7600 rpm WEIGHT : 9.2 kg (20-1/4 lbs.) powerhead only OPERATOR CONFIGURATION: One Man operation HANDLEBAR SYSTEM: Rigid CHAIN BRAKE: none CLUTCH: Centrifugal DRIVE TYPE: Direct CONSTRUCTION: Die cast magnesium MAGNETO TYPE: Pagani CARBURETOR: Tillotson HS-112 series

MAJOR REPAIR KIT: RK-23HS MINOR REPAIR KIT: DG-5HS/T AIR FILTER SYSTEM: Nylon mesh cartridge STARTER TYPE: Jonsereds automatic rewind OIL PUMP: Automatic, worm gear driven OPERATING RPM: 10,100 IGNITION TIMING: 3.8mm before TDC BREAKER POINT SETTING: 0.3 to 0.4mm FLYWHEEL/COIL AIR GAP: 0.3 mm (0.012 in.) SPARK PLUG TYPE: Bosch WS7F SPARK PLUG GAP: 0.5mm (0.020 in.) CRANKSHAFT MAIN BEARINGS: Ball FUEL TANK CAPACITY: 1.2 litres FUEL OIL RATIO: 25:1 RECOMMENDED FUEL OCTANE: Regular MIX OIL SPECIFICATION: Two-cycle chain saw mix oil CHAIN PITCH: .404 in. CHAIN TYPE: Chipper BAR MOUNT PATTERN: 18 link SHORTEST GUIDE BAR SUPPLIED: 58cm (23 in.) LONGEST GUIDE BAR SUPPLIED: 89cm (35 in.) COLOUR SCHEME: Red and Silver enamel
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Magnus on January 10, 2013, 05:37:18 am
Attached are factory specs for 111S. Might be of interest!
Were did you find these spec's?
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on January 11, 2013, 09:54:10 am
Hi there, the specs were sent to me by dealer support at Husqvarna UK.
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on January 12, 2013, 01:27:59 pm
can't get the 111s to start; kidding ouselves that we see smoke, but it's not even firing. I'm thinking spark. Is there a HT module from another machine/manufacturer that will fit??
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on January 24, 2013, 12:05:35 pm
Now, how about the ignition on the 111s? What is the points gap? Are new points available? Look forward to your help, yet again!

Peter Davies
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: 660magnum on January 24, 2013, 12:13:39 pm
The gap is between .2mm and .3mm or essentially .010" on the points.

Point gap will have some effect on the timing on these. The variable is .008" to .012"
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on January 26, 2013, 01:47:14 pm
Can do 10 thou on the points, but what about setting up the back plate; that has about +/- 7 degrees. The high point on the cam appears to be just before the keyway; does that mean that when the cam follower is on the keyway, the engine is at top dead center? Adjusting timing after the flywheel is installed looks impossible? Your help, as always, much appreciated. Peter Davies
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: 660magnum on January 26, 2013, 02:45:39 pm
The ultimate timing position you are looking for is to have the points break at 22 degrees before top dead center.

To accurately do this you will need a degree wheel, a volt-ohm meter, and a feeler gauge.

You are going to need to have an idea of the relationship of the crankshaft Key way to the top dead center position if you are going to do this with the flywheel removed?

The volt-ohm meter or even a self powered test light is required to know just when the points break.

The feeler gauge is to set the point gap in order to have the proper coil saturation dwell time.

You will need a piston stop to use with the degree wheel to find top dead center. I have been successful in determining TDC with the degree wheel attached to the crankshaft alone without piston stops and all that jazz. Just determine the center of the dead zone at the top of the compression stroke by feel.

If you need a degree wheel, there are many on the internet that you can print out and glue to a piece of card board, metal, or plastic that will work very well for this purpose. I can give you links if necessary?

If all this is getting too complicated for you, just set the points at .010" and put the timing marker on zero. Don't worry about the rest if it runs good . . .
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on January 26, 2013, 05:42:35 pm
OK, if I trial fit the flywheel, there is a dimple on the top which is at 12 o'clock at TDC. There do not seem to be any marks on the casing to line things up with? The nearest mark, to the left of the TDC, would be about 30 degrees before TDC; the mark on the bottom of the flywheel would give about 12 deg after TDC if placed at 6 o'clock. The keyway is about 60 degrees from TDC, but is really hard to judge. Will look for degree wheel; will be back if no success. If I read you right, one can set the crank up using the flywheel, but you can't move, or secure, the back plate with the fly wheel in place?? Thanks. Peter Davies
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: 660magnum on January 26, 2013, 06:05:47 pm
I've made a error in my discussions with you relative to the point gap. The spec is .3 to .4 mmn which is .012" - .016"

I don't know if if you are a inch or metric man or if it even makes any difference to you. It wouldn't to me.

Most old chainsaws have a window in the flywheel that is over the points adjustment when they are at their widest point? If not, remove the flywheel and set the point gap at their widest position.

If the key is good in the flywheel, the timing hasn't changed.

If the point gap is between .3 and .4 mm and the spark plug is good and set at .5mm - it should fire. If not, I would suspect capacitor first and coil second?
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on January 27, 2013, 12:38:20 pm
Don't worry about metric/imperial; I do both but feeler guages are in thou.

There is no window in the face of the flywheel. Even if there was, there is a metal cover over the points mechanism.

I can't just set the points because I have had the backplate off to replace the wire from the on/off switch. (not much insulation left on the wire. It could be the cause of the no start problem)

When I come to set up the make/break, there is still a circuit even with the points open; it is grounding through the coil. The coil appears fine; it is wound from the metal former, so it would ground.

To set up the points gap with the ohm meter, I would need to disconnect the coil.

The other way to do it would be with a cigaret paper between the points; rotate the back plate until the paper will just withdraw. That is the way we used to do cars with distributors.

Is the capacitor the black lump behind the spark plug?

Are sets of points available? I think the heel of the cam follower might be badly worn. This could effect the gap setting. The most imortant facor would be the make/break at 22 BTDC.

What about installing the recoil cord? Is it six turns around the pulley and an extra one to pre tension?

That'l do for now, thanks

Peter Davies
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: 660magnum on January 27, 2013, 01:15:14 pm
A chainsaw that big, I would want to use the 4.5 mm double braid Dacron polyester pull cord. I fill the starter pulley up but not so full that it will jam.

Your idea of using cigarette paper and it slipping out is probably your best bet.

I've never seen the chainsaw so I don't know about the capacitor?  One bridge that needs to be crossed is that fact that it may have some electronic device added to make the ignition work?

If it is a pure points and coil magneto ignition, there is going to be a capacitor or condenser across the points somewhere?
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on January 27, 2013, 05:02:34 pm
Hi there,
saw is 111s, looks like the one in your video. Attached is photo of contact breaker assembley/

cheers

Peter Davies
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: 660magnum on January 27, 2013, 05:17:40 pm
I see the capacitor on the left side of the picture where the wire from the coil connects. It can be tested with a ohm meter actually if it is isolated.
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on January 27, 2013, 07:59:18 pm
when you say you see the capacitor, are you talking about the white component, lurking under the black lead, at 9 o'clock? If so. that is a plastic terminal block. Guess this saw is not the same as yours?? Your's are probably newer?

Attached, photo of black lump behind spark plug. Is this a coil, or capacitor?

Peter Davies
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: 660magnum on January 27, 2013, 08:10:04 pm
There's two coils - there's a trigger coil shown at the bottom of this picture
(http://chainsawrepair.createaforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1226.0;attach=2288;image)

And the main coil shown as the big black thing in this picture that has the high voltage spark plug wire on it. One of those small wires goes to the off-on switch?
(http://chainsawrepair.createaforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1226.0;attach=2294;image)

Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: 660magnum on January 27, 2013, 08:57:44 pm
This Jonsereds 111 follows a lot of convention of how many other chainsaws were made in that time period.

I think I've found the capacitor or condenser being as you said what looked like the condenser is just a insulated terminal.

Usually the condenser is located beside the points but in this case, I see it beside the big coil above the carb.

There are three wires on the big coil. One goes to the points and trigger coil, one goes to the capacitor, and one goes to the off-on switch.

The other wire on the off-on switch should go to the chainsaw crankcase metal somewhere. 
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on January 27, 2013, 09:40:59 pm
OK, so no capacitor? Sorry the photos are so big! My confuser shows them as tiny!
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on January 27, 2013, 09:43:59 pm
Yes, one wire goes to on/off switch, bottom LH corner of photo
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on January 27, 2013, 09:51:42 pm
I'm going to ignore the 10 thou gap and go for the cigaret paper trick at 22 BTDC.
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on January 28, 2013, 11:27:30 am
Hi Magnum,
I had assumed that the 111s, in video you posted, was your saw; thus you would be intimately familiar!
It actually earths through the on/off switch.

cheers

Peter Davies

Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: 660magnum on January 28, 2013, 11:46:40 am
If you earth the ignition through that on/off switch - the ignition will not have any spark at the spark plug when you turn the engine over. That's the way you turn the engine off.

We are dealing with a magneto here. The off-on switch shorts the ignition out by grounding the magneto impulse to shut the engine off.
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on January 28, 2013, 03:47:09 pm
The on/off switch is insulated from the body until you flip it to stop.

Set points up with cigarette paper; max gap on high point of cam is only 2-3 thou.

Got the machine back together; it runs!!!

Might have to sample a small alcoholic beverage (or several) a bit later!

Thanks for all your help

Peter Davies
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: 660magnum on January 28, 2013, 03:59:02 pm
I'm so glad to hear of your success

Enjoy
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on January 28, 2013, 08:19:44 pm
Just remains to see if we can get an oil feed!

Peter Davies
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: 660magnum on January 28, 2013, 09:39:02 pm
I would try some kerosene in the oil tank first to get it cleaned out?

I'm talking about the stuff that is as thin as gasoline.  - - But don't use gasoline. - -

Paraffin?

It is thinner that what is run in diesel trucks and cars.
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on January 29, 2013, 09:40:08 pm
Hi, I've got oil! It would be good to have a conversation with the man who made the video, on the 111s, that you posted. How does he set up his points? Can he get replacemants? etc.

cheers

Peter Davies
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: 660magnum on January 29, 2013, 09:51:58 pm
His name is Rich Dougan and his Email address is sawking@hotmail.com

The saw was for sale, he may have sold it by now?
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on February 03, 2013, 08:26:37 pm
Hi,
I've been having a look at the factory specs for the 111S; they give points gap at 0.3-0.4 mm (12-15 thou). Thats fine. But they give the advance as 3.8 mm. That might be fine if I knew where they measured it!! It can't be at the perimeter of the fly wheel; must be on the crank shaft; that will be hard to measure!

The way I did it at 22 BTDC, had the cam follower too high on the cam.

Any thoughts??

cheers

Peter Davies
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: 660magnum on February 03, 2013, 10:21:46 pm
Boy, I don't  know about that one. Sounds to far to be on the crankshaft cam lobe and not far enough on the perimeter of the flywheel?

If the chainsaw runs OK I'm sure it doesn't need to be moved?

Set a protractor on the nose of the crank to see about how far out from center 3.8mm would be on the 22 degree line?
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on February 07, 2013, 07:41:38 pm
Hi Magnum,
I've done the calculations on the 3.8mm BTDC; on the jonsered 15mm dia crank, it gives 29 BTDC. That checks out visually; there is a very sudden step on the timing lobe; that is about 3.8mm, or 29 deg BTDC. That means that almost whatever one sets the points at, they will fire on that step; just leaves the backplate to set up with the cigarette paper. When I set it up for 22 deg, it was too far up the cam and only gave a max gap of about 2 thou; that probably explains why the timing went off so rapidly. The points never opened quickly enough to  prevent a long spark; hence the pipping?

So I will set it for 29 deg. I'm also going to try an electronic fix that will eliminate the points and condenser; not one for the purist, but if it works, and the saw can go out and earn money, that will do it for me!

cheers

Peter Davies
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: 660magnum on February 07, 2013, 08:58:24 pm
29 degrees advance is a good figure.

All my custom model airplane engines I have made from weed whackers and chain saws, I have the ignition set at 28 degrees advance.
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on February 11, 2013, 01:54:48 pm
the 111s is reluctant to start; there is a huge spark so the fuel system is due for attention. Repair kits for the Tillotson carb appear easy enough, but what about the fuel supply line?? Any thoughts/suggestions?
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: 660magnum on February 11, 2013, 03:43:28 pm
If it is that old I would replace them
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on February 11, 2013, 09:57:34 pm
I'm not sure it is that easy. On first inspection, I thought they were just lengths of rubber hose pushed onto fittings. The supply line has a metal collar around it as it goes to a  through tank fitting; the vent line is probably similar. To get a really close look, I would have to take off all the body casing, I think! If the fuel supply line, and vent line, are Jonsered parts, I could be struggling!
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: 660magnum on February 11, 2013, 11:45:41 pm
Jonsered parts are hard to come by right now, even for current product units unless the dealer has them in stock but for an older out of production genuine Jonsered product - impossible

You may have to improvise?
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on February 12, 2013, 12:58:38 pm
Looks like I've got lucky! Both the supply, and vent line, are standard tubing. There are aluminum, threaded, through tank fittings. They were impossible to see under the accumulated grime of ages, and I didn't want to be aggressive in case I broke something that was irriplaceable!
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on February 17, 2013, 09:04:54 pm
Hi Snoopy,
spare parts sounds good, though I have a spare motor, almost complete! What are your thoughts/experience on ignition timing for the 111s. I'm still trying to get some clarification from Husquvarna. Around 30 BTDC does bring you to the next mark on the flywheel; seems significant!

cheers

Peter Davies
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on February 17, 2013, 09:14:11 pm
put in new fuel lines and new bits in the carb. Now runs well, we were whooping like school boys when it burst into life, and stayed running this afternoon. We have cut some wood, but needs a bit of tinkering for slow running etc.

Have a small problem with fuel pick up. I will start a new topic, because it will not only apply to the jonny red 111s.
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: 660magnum on February 17, 2013, 09:53:39 pm
Good to hear of your success
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on February 19, 2013, 08:19:25 pm
Hi, does any one know if the 111s has an adjustable lubrication system? There is a screw above, and the other side of the spikes, that looks a reasonable suspect.

Some one out there must have a manual for the 111s???

cheers

Peter Davies

ps; as many of you out there have "handles", I should probably become "Shedro", on account of the hours I have spent in the shed the last few weeks, investigating the vital organs of chain saws!! Not a big change, as some of the family call me Pedro!
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Cut4fun . on February 19, 2013, 08:59:31 pm
The 111 IPL looks like adjustable oiler?  http://chainsaw.dyndns.info/downloads/brand/jonsered/Jonsereds_111-111S.pdf
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: dutchsawdoctor on February 20, 2013, 12:30:16 am
Yah it is a adjustable oiler 
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: dutchsawdoctor on February 20, 2013, 12:32:48 am
Screw out max. screw in les-oil on cain
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: Peter Davies on February 26, 2013, 05:29:49 pm
Hi Sawdoctor,
I  guessthe bottom pair of screws, on the attached, retain the oil pump, the single screw above, retains the lubrication control valve, and the little black screw, at the top, adjusts the flow.
cheers
Peter Davies
Title: Re: Jonsered 111s
Post by: dutchsawdoctor on February 27, 2013, 11:40:38 pm
This it the adjuster one