Chainsaw Repair
Husqvarna - Stihl - Poulan - Jonsered - Dolmar chainsaws and more => Husqvarna => Topic started by: fatboycowen on October 12, 2012, 06:53:18 am
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This is my first post here, but i have been lurking for quite a while. I also lurk at some of the other saw forums, but i decided to try posting here first due to the nature of the post (repair). Plus, i like the layout of the forum, and most of the posts seem informative.
I'm pretty much a noob compared to most of you. But, i have this unexplainable addiction to saws.
Anyway, i've been looking for a cheap saw to tinker with, so that i can learn the ins and outs. So, i have been searching craigslist for something reasonable to add to my collection. I started on Husqvarna, so i have been sticking with them, even though i have nothing against Stihl saws or other brands.
I found a 357xp locally. Seller says it won't idle and may need a carb and fuel lines. I went to see, pulled the plug and muffler, and the piston/cylinder look excellent. No signs of scoring. I offered $75 and got it. All plastic is in good shape (one small crack in upper plastic piece). Saw came with a nice condition 18" bar and almost new Stihl 3/8 chain. Saw had a new looking plug and filter. Fuel lines in the tank look good (to my untrained eye)
I tinkered with it a little last night. Pulled the bar and chain. Sprocket was in good shape (good sign i hope?).
I think it has a significant air leak. With the exhaust off, plug in (wire off), when cranking the saw, you can hear a hissing sound which sounds like it is coming from the rear (carb) or side. I pulled out my 345 and, under the same conditions, the hissing noise is not present.
Questions:
How do i identify the date of this saw? I can see the tag under the handle. I suspect it's an 03.
What's the next step? This is as far as i have disasembled a saw yet. I'm thinking i'll pull the carb, take it apart to clean it, and look for an air leak.
Let me know if you guys are willing to walk me through this first project of mine, or if i should look elsewhere. Just looking to learn and have a bit of fun with it. I'm fired up to get into this thing.
I'll try to post up some pics tonight if i can figure out how.
Thanks in advance.
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If you post the numbers from the tag behind the front bar on the chain side, one of us can tell you what year it is but you are most likely correct already.
If the impulse and fuel lines do not have holes in them, it usually requires a crankcase pressure check to find the leak?
You can get the Illustrated Parts Manual from the Husqvarna USA website.
Some of us have a copy of the Workshop Manual that can be sent over Email. It might also be available from a website?
Make sure the compression release is not leaking.
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Ok, i downloaded the IPL from Husqvarna and went on parts tree to identify the parts. The decompression valve may be what is leaking. My saw has the decompression valve 537128-05, which has the banjo fitting and hose attached. I don't really know how this works. The hissing does sound like it is coming from there.
How do i do a crankcase pressure test? Do i need special tools? I have a mity-vac, compressor, etc. Most of my tools are car related.
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First of all I would get rid of the automatic decompression valve and put a manual one in there.
Those automatic decompression valves were something that didn't work out for Husqvarna and was replaced by a manual one on the later 357's.
Get the correct number for the manual valve from a later model 357 IPL
You may not have any other problem? Let's wait and see?
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The is another thing that was problematic on Husqvarna chainsaws of that era.
The clamp for the rubber carburetor boot at the cylinder was a plastic snap on affair.
The clamp tends to unsnap and the rubber boot then leaks at the cylinder causing all kinds of air leak symptoms.
The fix is to replace the plastic one with a later metal one. But it is not that simple for there is extra plastic on the baffle plate that must be removed for the metal clamp to fit properly or else by the later baffle plate that was used with the metal clamp.
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When you replace the auto decomp valve you will need to plug the fitting @ the bottom of the cylinder. Follow the hose down to the bottom of the cylinder.
Shep
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I made some progress tonight.
I pulled the decomp valve off my 345 and it fit in the 357 nicely. I plugged the hole in the hose temporarily and tried it. Note that i didn't plug it at the bottom, so it's possible that the hose has a leak. What should i use to plug that hole permanently?
The saw starts with the choke on. Once the choke is off, the saw starts again, revs up and dies. I tried changing the idle speed screw and low speed screw in multiple positions, with no luck. Same symptoms, but different start up speed.
I then put it back on the work bench and started tinkering again. I found the fuel line from the carb to tank is very **** and leaking. So, how do i go about replacing it? Do i have to pull the tank? Should i replace the other line while i am in there? That one looks more difficult to access.
I pulled the carb. It looks pretty clean. I may disasemble it and clean it. Should I? Do they make a carb rebuild kit for this carb?
Another problem is that the fuel tank leaks. The saw has the older style fuel cap, which i like better than the new. Do they sell the o-ring for this?
Also, the saw has the older style (i think) limiters on the carb adjustments. There is a one piece cap that covers both screws. What is the best way to remove the limiters on this saw?
The clamp at the cylinder is plastic as mentioned. I don't know if there is a leak yet.
I have a few dealers nearby, but i've never visited them. Do dealers typically carry parts like this (decomp valve, fuel hose, filter, etc)?
Thanks again.
Jon
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I would start with looking closely at the parts list you downloaded plus I would download the newest parts list too.
Some people can get the fuel line in the tank with the tank just dropped down in the rear but you may as well take it all the way off?
While you are there, you want to change the fuel filter too. It is on the end of the fuel line.
You will need to remove the top handle before taking the tank off. There is a limiter screw in behind the clutch cover that will need to be taken off also to get the tank to drop down.
I wouldn't mess with the carb too much until I got the other things fixed?
You can get new O-rings for the old style caps but the new caps have a ribbed flat rubber gasket that goes around the caps
On the needle valve limiters, all that stuff will pull off if you look at the parts list carefully.
Do you have the repair manual yet?
You can PM me with your Email address and I can send the file to you?
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I was able to find the repair manual. I've read through it. I used it to help pull the carb.
I'm putting together an order at Jack's Small Engine now.
Question: From the diagrams, it appears that there are two separate hoses from the tank to the carb. Is this correct? There is a spiral hose in the tank (with filter), but i can't tell if it stops at a fitting somewhere inside or just outside the tank, or if it is the same piece of hose that goes to the carb. The diagrams show 2 seperate pieces. If that's true, the only cracks i can see are in the hose outside the tank. Maybe i'll have to do more disassembly before i order.
On my order i have:
Manual Decompression valve
New fuel cap
Fuel Filter
Fuel Hose 544325002
Fuel Hose 503400602
Partition wall intake 537251302 (comes with the metal clamp)
Impulse hose 544325101
Anything else i should order while i'm there?
Big thanks for the help so far. This is fun stuff.
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The fuel line comes out of the tank through the carb base and connects to the carb. All 1 line.
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Husqvarna 357 359 IPL http://s30387.gridserver.com/partsDiagrams/Husqvarna%20359%20and%20357xp.pdf
Another husky 357 359 IPL just in case one wont open for you. http://www.jonsered.ws/359.pdf
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Check out this thread for updated parts for your saw. http://chainsawrepair.createaforum.com/husqvarna/husqvarna-346-357-359-353-update-info/msg1999/?topicseen#msg1999
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cut4fun,
check out pdf page 7 of the ipl.
http://www.jonsered.ws/359.pdf
Part number 5035776-02 is the helical shaped fuel line in the tank. It comes up out of the tank and through the hole in the car base, to the carb. I can see that now.
Part number 5034006-02 is the fuel vent(?) line. It's missing on my saw. the top of the carb base just has the little nipple, with no hose on it. I havent pulled the carb base yet. How important is that line? Could this be causing my problem? It's not really clear to me the purpose of that line. Even if the line isnt there, the tank is still vented, right?
Thanks!
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I doubt your chainsaw ever having a vent line? They came along about 2007 on some models.
If your chainsaw had a vent line, there would be a hole for it to loop up through the carb air chamber floor and to fasten to a little nipple up closer to the cylinder.
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My 357 had vent in tank no line.
Show us some pics of what you are talking about on your saw.
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Sorry no pictures uploaded yet. Soon.
Last night i pulled the carb support plate off. This gives good access to the fuel line where it enters the tank. So, it doesn't look like i'll have to remove the tank to install the new line. The old line is very **** near the carb.
I realized that i needed to lift the cylinder up to get the partition wall intake off of the cylinder. I did that, and it appears to be in good condition. The clamp was still tight and the rubber hasnt degraded. It doesnt look like this was the problem, but i will replace it anyway (since i ordered it).
My parts will take a bit to get to me, since some of them are not in stock.
So, i lifted the cylinder, but left the piston in, because i don't own a ring compressor. Since i am so close, should i just order up a ring and a ring compressor and replace the ring too? Is there anything difficult about installing a new ring? Any reason i shouldn't?
Also, when i lifted up the cylinder, i found that the rubber line from the old decompression valve had a huge split right at the bottom. This was a huge air leak. Could this be the entire problem? What kind of running problems would this cause?
So, i was thinking of how i should plug the hole in the lower nipple for that decompression fitting. It's a small hole in a fitting. Should i fill it with epoxy? Thoughts?
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The cracks in the fuel line at the carb is bad enough but the decompression signal line would have been a crankcase leak and caused a lot of fuel draw problems.
I've used a electricians wire tie (wrap) for a ring compressor. It will drop down around the rod and then you cut it off.
The chainsaw ring compressor set up is nice as there is a plastic jig that slides along both sides of the rod to prevent the piston skirt from bumping the gasket or crankcase.
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Baileys sells a little kit to convert from the automatic to manual decomp on a 357XP. It's basically a manual decompression valve, and a little rubber sleeve with a spring clamp that fits over the decompression hose stub. Not all that expensive, but I suppose it would have been easier to just put some sort of goop on the hose stub.
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I sealed the decomp hose fitting on the cyl. on mine with a small sheet metal screw and JB weld for insurance.
Shep
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Sorry if I missed it but which carb does your saw have? Zama or walbro? The walbro had idle issues and smoked a lot of cylinders. The recommended upgrade is to the zama.
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This is how i ended up plugging the decomp fitting. I zapped it with my mig welder, then pushed it back into the cylinder. Hopefully this attachment works.
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Here is the big crack in the bottom of the auto decomp line.
I was able to replace the fuel line easily without removing the tank. Once the carb was off, the carb support plate came off easily which allowed me to access where the line exits the tank.
Here's what i did:
Put on manual decomp valve
Replaced intake partition
Replaced impulse line
Replaced fuel line + filter
Replaced fuel cap
Cleaned it up the best i could
I re-assembled and tried running the saw. The same problems persist. The saw will kick over in a few pulls with the choke out. Once the choke is disengaged, the saw starts in high idle, runs for a few seconds then dies.
I believe the saw is getting plenty of fuel. The plug is very wet with fuel, and when i crank it over, it puffs out fuel vapor from the exhaust.
I tried removing the limiter cap. I removed the plastic piece surrounding the adjustment screws, thinking this would take away the limiters. It didn't. The adjustment screws are still limited. Do i need to cut the moulded high spots off the sides of the adjustment screws so they can turn beyond the factory range?
I bought a pressure/vacuum fitting for the saw, so i am going to try my first vacuum test to see if i can find any other air leaks.
I have to go out and look again, but i'm fairly sure the carb is a Walbro. It looks like the carbs are pretty expensive. So, i'd like to make sure it's the problem before i buy one.
Anything else i should look for?
Thanks.
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I cut the tabs from the sides of the limiter caps with my pocket knife.
If you pull the limiters off the needles, you ruin them and then you can not adjust the needles with the engine running
You can buy new limiters from husky but you then have to cut the tabs from them also.
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Ok, i just performed my first ever vacuum/pressure test on a saw.
I used a piece of rubber to block off the exhaust port
I also managed to block off the intake boot, where the carb connects successfully (this part wasn't easy).
The saw held 10psi pressure for over a minute. Similar for vacuum. Does this successfully eliminate the possibility of air leaks?
So, does that leave only the carburetor? What is my next step?
Should i first cut off the limiters off the carb needle screws and try that?
I verified that this is a Walbro carb.
If that fails, should i try rebuilding this carb, or spring for a Zama? If so, where should i get the Zama?
Thanks,
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The saws seems to have passed the pressure vacuum test OK.
By all means . . . Cut the limiter tabs from your needle valves
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Well, the saw runs!
I cut the limiters off the carb needle screws, and decided that, while i had it out, i would disasemble and clean the carb. It didnt take too long, and went back together easily. The diaphragm was in good shape, as were the reed valves. There was a bit of junk built up in a few spots, that came off easily with carb cleaner.
Put it all back together and it fired right up.
However, when adjusting the carb, i noticed a pretty nasty rattle. Sounds to me like a bearing.
Here is a video, if i can get it to work.
http://youtu.be/0VYjpqRd2XA
What does this sound like to you guys?
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Here is another. This is just pulling the starter cord with the decompression valve open.
http://youtu.be/a5w5Ai0oV4s
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Is there a gasket under the cylinder? Was the squish checked? Sounds like the piston is tapping the cylinder but hard to tell from vid.
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Could be shot wrist pin bearing.
Only one way to see...
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Ok, i have a plan.
First i'm going to run the saw without the clutch to verify that the clutch isn't making the noise. I have read that a weak clutch spring can do this. I also noticed that while tuning, it was difficult to make the engine idle without the chain surging forward a little. Any reason i should not do this?
If this doesn't work, im going to order up some more parts and tools.
Questions:
- The service manual says "press out the gudgeon pin". Does this require any special tools, or will it just slide out by hand?
I'll probably get another base gasket and wrist pin bearing.
Anything else i should get while i'm at it?
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It could be more, best take it down first and see what you need.
There are other bearing in there that can make it "kling".
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Ok. I will pull the jug and see what there is to see.
Will it be obvious if the piston is hitting the squish band?
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Ok. I will pull the jug and see what there is to see.
Will it be obvious if the piston is hitting the squish band?
Yes, you shuld be able to see the squish band print on the piston. Check the squish.
Shep
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Well, the first order of business is to try the saw without the clutch.
I removed the bar, chain, clutch, sprocket, bearing and oil pump drive gear. I then ran the saw. I warmed it up for a while, revved it a bunch and couldnt hear any noise. I put the clutch back on, with no bar and chain, and the noise instantly returned. I repeated the removal, and no more noise. The noise in the video is definitely coming from the clutch.
Without the clutch installed, the engine sounds completely normal to me.
How common is this? I inspected the clutch, and none of the springs are broken. The clutch is the 3 coil spring type.
Baileys lists both the coil spring clutch and (spreader?) spring clutch. Not sure what those are called. The coil spring clutch is cheaper. Which should i get?
Here they are:
http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=QH+53710+3403&catID=
http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=HVP+537+10+34+03&catID=
The part numbers are the same, so maybe the pictures are not accurate.
Also, do i need to replace the drum while i am doing the clutch?
I will replace the bearing and probably the sprocket. I also have a crack in the oil drive gear so i will replace that.
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It is very common for clutch drum to rattle. Gets worse when there is no grease in bearing. You can pack bearing with grease and it will go away temporarily.
Either clutch is OK with me. I've had no problems with either type. Both types break occasionally.
Check the drum for a groove where the shoes hit the drum. If it's very noticable replace it. I wouldn't until it starts slipping but that's me. I do have parts for mine if it should go down. By they way your'e doing good on this repair. Don't rev to hard w/o b&c on saw. Iv'e been told there is a possibility of damaging saw @ WOT.
Shep
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I've decided that i'll just replace the drum and sprocket with the clutch, and hope the rattle is gone.
I'm really enjoying this repair. I'm a hands on person, but i mostly work behind a desk as a day job. My other hobby is cars, and i am constantly working on them. Chainsaws are VERY simple in comparison. But, i am really enjoying figuring out how they work. Something about 2 stroke engines really fires me up. I'm the kind of person who doesn't really feel comfortable using something i haven't taken completely apart multiple times.
I was pretty easy on the saw without the clutch/bar/chain. I noticed that it spooled up much quicker that way, so i would hold down WOT for maybe a second or less at a time. I also turned out the high screw a bit just to be safe before i ran it.
I've now decided that i'm going to keep the saw, since i've put so much time into it, and learned so much about it. In the end, i'll have a pretty nice pro saw for under 200 bucks. But the reality is, i would have paid much more just for the experience. I'm thinking i'll buy a hard case for it and keep it in the back of my chevy full time. I'll probably do my first muffler mod on it. Maybe i'll even experiment with porting at some point down the road.
I'm anxious to compare this saw with my 562. Speaking of which - will my 562 bar fit on the 357? I know Husqvarna has different bar mount sizes (and i know the 562 is the big bar mount), but i haven't really studied the differences.
Thanks to everyone for the help so far. Hopefully some day i'll have the experience to return the favor.
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The bars don't fit the other saws. There's a difference between the bar studs
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562 is large mount Husky (Oregon D009) 357 is (Oregon K095) small mt Husky.
Shep
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I was lazy in ordering the last of my parts, and they should be here tomorrow.
Question - Any bolts that should have loctite on this saw, before final assembly? Jug bolts? Muffler bolts?
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The saw is fully assembled and seems to run great. The clutch rattle is now gone, and the saw starts very easily, and revs nicely.
I just got my first tachometer, and went to tune the saw. Previously, i set it so that it 4- stroked quite obviously. Turned out that, i had tuned it to about 12000 RPM.
Question is - how do i tune it now using the tach?
First i set idle to around 2700. It isn't terribly consistent. The revs climb and drop a little depending on how long the saw has idled. But, it sounds normal.
Then, i turned in the H screw a little to test WOT again. I turned it in until the saw was running at around 13,500 rpm consistently. However, it doesn't quite sound like its 4-stroking. Is this a problem? The specs i read showed a max RPM of 14,000. I never leaned it enough to go that high.
I plan to test the saw this weekend in some oak. I haven't yet made a cut with it.
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3500 to 13,500 are good numbers to go with on the 357XP. Idling below 3500rpm gets to be too unstable. The clutch starts to engage at 4500-5000. The 12,000 is Fine for the high speed if you feel better with it there as long as the chainsaw "two strokes" in the cut? The high speed above 13,500 is getting a little lean for cutting all day? These numbers are approximate because the tach numbers jump around a little bit and will vary according to the temperature.
There is no rpm limiter on the coil of the 357.
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Excellent news. Thanks. I'll give it a bit more fuel just to be on the safe side. This saw probably won't see too heavy use, but then who knows what hurricanes will hit next.
Would you recommend that i do some test cutting with the tach still on the saw? Will that benefit me at all?
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Out of curiosity, what is a good running 357xp worth on the used market? I'll probably end up keeping it, but the final decision will be made after i start using it.
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Out of curiosity, what is a good running 357xp worth on the used market? I'll probably end up keeping it, but the final decision will be made after i start using it.
$300 -350 depending on how clean it is.
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Excellent news. Thanks. I'll give it a bit more fuel just to be on the safe side. This saw probably won't see too heavy use, but then who knows what hurricanes will hit next.
Would you recommend that i do some test cutting with the tach still on the saw? Will that benefit me at all?
I recommend you go out and make a few cuts with it and then check the rpms with the tach to make sure it is stable.
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Well, i cut with the saw for about 30 minutes straight yesterday, in a downed oak. I brought my 562xp along as well, so i could do some comparison. BUT, i never picked up the 562. The 357 ran AWESOME! I was very impressed with how strong it was.
I haven't run my 562 for a few weeks, so i can't yet compare them back to back. But, i thought i would be disappointed with the 357 in comparison. I wasn't at all. The saw is fantastic.
Based on this bad comparison, it seems that the 562 has a little more power and is a little easier to handle (slightly smoother, and slightly better balanced). I didn't get into any wood bigger than, maybe 15", so i am assuming the difference would be much more drastic in larger wood.
As far as the tune - I richened the saw slightly before i started running it (previously tuned to 13,500). For the first few small cuts (6-8" wood) the saw 4 stroked a little in the cut. It seemed to lean out a little once fully warmed up (in just a few minutes), and ran perfect. It would 4-stroke a little at WOT out of the cut, and clean right up as soon as it went into the cut.
I found it much easier to hear the saw 4 stroking with earmuffs on while cutting than i did while i was tuning it.
I really thought the saw would be trouble, with all the reviews about the wonky Walbro carb, but it ran and idled perfectly. It was VERY easy to start. It had sat for 2 days after tuning it, and yesterday morning, it fired on the first choked pull, then started on the first un-choked pull. Hot starts were very easy as well.
Very happy with this saw.
Big thanks to everyone that helped.
Now, i'm thinking about doing a muffler mod.