Chainsaw Repair

Husqvarna - Stihl - Poulan - Jonsered - Dolmar chainsaws and more => Stihl => Topic started by: davbell22602 on December 14, 2012, 10:17:08 am

Title: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: davbell22602 on December 14, 2012, 10:17:08 am
Who sells the aftermarket or reman piston/cylinder kits for Stihl chainsaws or weedeaters? I'm gonna be getting 026 thats hard to start and has low compression says the owner. I'm gonna bring this back to life and keep it for myself to use.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: 660magnum on December 14, 2012, 10:52:09 am
Here's what you asked for, the Bailey's after market cylinder and piston assembly.

http://www.baileysonline.com/search.asp?PageNo=1&skw=stihl+026+cylinder

But . . .  as is often the situation, you can save the cylinder and just need a new piston and ring for $30 range.

http://www.baileysonline.com/search.asp?PageNo=1&skw=026+piston

At disassembly, you can examine the cylinder, show us pictures, use a Q-tip and Muriatic acid to clean the galled aluminum from the cylinder.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: davbell22602 on December 14, 2012, 11:01:10 am
Does it matter what bore size I use? 44mm or 44.7mm?
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: 660magnum on December 14, 2012, 11:21:03 am
As far as I know, you can use the bigger bore size if you are buying the piston and cylinder?
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: davbell22602 on December 14, 2012, 11:35:30 am
As far as I know, you can use the bigger bore size if you are buying the piston and cylinder?

What are the pros and cons of using the bigger size piston/cylinder kit?
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: Cut4fun . on December 14, 2012, 12:48:37 pm
To me none. Just depends on the port timing in the cylinder. 44mm to 44.7mm so you gain .7mm. If I was buying p+c I would go with biggest displacement just because. Just like OE 346 42mm and NE 44.3mm if buying complete topend kit I would go biggest. But if I could clean up either smaller bore cylinder then I would re-use and just get a meteor piston kit.

http://northwoodsaw.com/store/index.php?l=search_list&s[search]=stihl+026+cylinder&s[title]=Y&s[short_desc]=Y&s[full_desc]=Y&s[sku]=Y&s[match]=all&s[cid]=0

The AFM 44 is $20 off right now.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: davbell22602 on December 28, 2012, 06:42:16 pm
Update

I bought this saw today that I mentioned earlier in this post for $50. Its 026 Pro and has 20in bar on. The PO was told by one of Stihl dealers that the saw is borderline of not having enough compression to start. The dealer quoted him $300 to go over the saw to see whats all wrong with it. PO said its hard to start but will run when started.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: Al Smith on December 28, 2012, 07:38:15 pm
Unless the cylinder is shedding chrome probabley a new set of rings would fix the problem .Cheapo fix .

Some people hone them but frankly I wouldn't bother as usually the comp will be allright .It might take a tad until the rings fully seat but as soon as they do it will come alive .You'll definately know when it happens .Run it a little rich but other than that run it like you stole it .

Flog that thing like a borrowed mule .It will either run like a scalded ape or fly apart like a dollar watch but seldom would that happen unless something else is wrong with it .
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: davbell22602 on December 28, 2012, 07:46:23 pm
The dealer told him it needs a new piston. So I guess 44.7mm pistons came in the 026 pro and 026 just had the 44mm. Maybe thats why theres 2 different sized pistons.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: 660magnum on December 28, 2012, 07:54:21 pm
You will see some confusion on the 44mm /44.7mm piston scenario.

It was my impression that the very last 026/026PRO chainsaws were 44.7mm and all 260's were 44.7mm.

Being as it is difficult to date a Stihl other than how it is equipped, it is best you measure your piston first.

You can measure it with a popsicle stick stuck into the exhaust port.

Put the stick all the way into the exhaust port and very slightly pinch it with the piston.

Then measure from the end of the stick to the pinch mark with vernier callipers.

This will be close enough to decide 44mm or 44.7mm.

Being as it is a 026 it is most likely a 44mm but it is also probable, with a chainsaw that old, that it could be a frankensaw and someone could have changed it?
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: Cut4fun . on December 28, 2012, 08:12:27 pm
The 026 pro I tore down was 44mm. 

I'd be pulling topend  and micing to make sure.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: Al Smith on December 28, 2012, 08:22:41 pm
The dealer told him it needs a new piston./end quote .

Might be might not be . A piston doesn't have to be perfect to work and work well .If it's just lightly dust injested or lightly exhaust scorched you can buff it out most times .
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: 604f_1 on December 29, 2012, 05:53:17 pm
As far as I know the 44.7 mm cylinders were only found on 260 and not on 026 . Some 260 were also 44mm thought .
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: 660magnum on December 29, 2012, 06:36:50 pm
As far as I know the 44.7 mm cylinders were only found on 260 and not on 026 . Some 260 were also 44mm thought .

I think what you say is correct . . . .

But you never know on a old saw, for if the part will fit, someone may have put it on there?  It is best that it is checked for size.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: davbell22602 on December 30, 2012, 03:18:40 pm
I pulled spark plug and did a compression test. I got 45 but it peaked to 50. I pulled muffler and found a scored piston. I found cylinder that didnt have a good cross hatch. I saw some up and down fine scratches but nothing deep like a score mark. Also the spark plug had brown carbon build up on it around electrode of the spark plug.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: Cut4fun on December 30, 2012, 04:00:48 pm
So was it 44mm or a later 44.7mm?

Sounds like a easy fix then. Either just clean up piston and re-ring if not real bad scored up piston or put a meteor piston kit in with the caber rings that come in their kits.

Did you say it was straight gasses?
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: davbell22602 on December 30, 2012, 04:13:58 pm
So was it 44mm or a later 44.7mm?

Sounds like a easy fix then. Either just clean up piston and re-ring if not real bad scored up piston or put a meteor piston kit in with the caber rings that come in their kits.

Did you say it was straight gasses?

I dont know the piston diameter yet. I'm thinking new piston and rings. On baileys site had cast iron rings also for this saw. Any take on cast iron rings?

I dont know about straight gases.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: 660magnum on December 30, 2012, 04:24:03 pm
The number one brand of after market piston rings is Caber and they are sold by Bailey's though you may find them cheaper elsewhere.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: Cut4fun on December 30, 2012, 04:50:56 pm
I's be figuring out why it scored before putting in a new piston.

Cant spell   ::)        (http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g289/doemaster789/smiles/canspellsmiley.gif)
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: davbell22602 on December 30, 2012, 05:04:09 pm
I's be figuring out way it scored before putting in a new piston.

I know the piston has brown streaks where it scored at. The spark plug was brown also with build up.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: SawTroll on December 30, 2012, 06:01:44 pm
The 026 pro I tore down was 44mm. 

I'd be pulling topend  and micing to make sure.

All 026 saws were 44mm, regardless of version. The 44.7mm thingy was done to the US made 260s (not to the first ones I believe, but in 2004 or so), to bring the cc number over 50 (for EPA reasons - different rules over and under 50cc). At the same time, the power rating went down from 2.6 to 2.4 kW.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: Cut4fun on December 30, 2012, 06:30:39 pm
I'd always measure though. You never know if someone put a 44.7mm on a 026 on a rebuild. I know I would have if I hadnt found a trade on a woods ported 44mm topend that was like new.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: Al Smith on December 31, 2012, 04:52:28 pm
If that plug is a brownish color that pretty much indicates the saw was tuned about correctly .Whitish would be lean and black too rich .

If it didn't pull a bunch of aluminum off the piston I'd just clean it and the cylinder up with Scotch -Brite and kerosine and stick another set of rings in it .Although a set of rings can last a long time they do wear out after a time .
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: davbell22602 on December 31, 2012, 06:00:45 pm
If that plug is a brownish color that pretty much indicates the saw was tuned about correctly .Whitish would be lean and black too rich .

If it didn't pull a bunch of aluminum off the piston I'd just clean it and the cylinder up with Scotch -Brite and kerosine and stick another set of rings in it .Although a set of rings can last a long time they do wear out after a time .

Some of the scoring marks were deep enough to see where the brown marks covered it where it scored the piston.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: Cut4fun . on December 31, 2012, 06:20:06 pm
Pics of piston exhaust and intake side along with cylinder same way?
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: davbell22602 on January 04, 2013, 01:20:25 pm
Pics of piston exhaust and intake side along with cylinder same way?

I'll get the pics. Also other difference between the 026 and ms260 is that the ms260 has compression release valve on the cylinder from what I was told.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: 660magnum on January 04, 2013, 01:27:43 pm
My 026 has a compression release. Always did. But not all 026's had compression releases.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: Cut4fun on January 04, 2013, 01:31:46 pm
026 pro had de-comps too.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: JohnG28 on January 04, 2013, 01:32:26 pm
I think it was the 026 PRO and 260 PRO designated (PRO label on the saw) models that had the decomp.  I believe the absence of that sticker left off the decomp and possibly the adjustable oiler also.

Beaten to the punch. ;D
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: 660magnum on January 04, 2013, 01:38:45 pm
That's the general rule but with old chainsaws and many years of manufacture, you may see all the combinations mixed up.

You just have to take what you have and go with it.

My 026 Pro has been all redone and does not have the original cylinder/piston nor carburetor but it is stihl all 026 Pro much as it was originally and runs very well.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jamesirl/028super026pro002.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jamesirl/Copyofcrackedcase372004.jpg)
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: Cut4fun on January 04, 2013, 01:53:28 pm
That cylinder on your 660mag has one of those D shaped combustion chambers I was told were the better ones to look for.  I have no clue why but builders like them when porting.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: 660magnum on January 04, 2013, 03:44:23 pm
Yes, this  026 PRO will really turn up the rpm and has a 3/8" X .050" X 16" Stihl bar X 7 tooth rim sprocket. It is ported and has a Walbro WT-194 carb with the intellicarb device disconnected. It also came with a adjustable oiler that only works when the chain is moving whereas some regular (None Pro) 026's didn't have an adjustable oiler and their oil pump ran the whole time the engine was running.

It is a great limbing chainsaw and companion to my 660 MAG. I have the 026 backed up with a four port 025.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: davbell22602 on February 06, 2013, 09:26:43 am
How much play can the piston needle bearing have?
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: 660magnum on February 06, 2013, 09:31:22 am
If you feel any UP-DOWN play, it is not acceptable.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: davbell22602 on February 06, 2013, 09:39:24 am
I have no up and down play but have front to back play when wiggling the pin. Its little though.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: brokenbudget on February 06, 2013, 11:50:02 am
there should be ZERO (radial) play on either the big end or little end of the crank. if there is, you need to fix that before it decides to turn the crank case into a gravel pit.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: davbell22602 on February 06, 2013, 12:25:42 pm
So front and back play isnt acceptable either?
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: 660magnum on February 06, 2013, 12:29:49 pm
that is correct.
The only play might be side to side.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: davbell22602 on February 06, 2013, 01:02:48 pm
Well the play have is front to back of the saw when the piston pin is in the bearing on the rod. But its very little like not even a 1/16th at most.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: brokenbudget on February 06, 2013, 02:18:44 pm
Well the play have is front to back of the saw when the piston pin is in the bearing on the rod. But its very little like not even a 1/16th at most.

there should be ZERO (radial) play on either the big end or little end of the crank. if there is, you need to fix that before it decides to turn the crank case into a gravel pit.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: davbell22602 on February 13, 2013, 01:51:10 pm
Just everyone know I got this back together. I'm still not 100% convinced that this was piston and/or piston ring related. I think its more related to carb issues also. The old rings still had to be compressed to the cylinder back. The old rings were half way compressed compared to the new ones.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: davbell22602 on April 02, 2013, 07:48:39 pm
Whats the carb preset adjustment for 026 pro. I ran it the other day and rpms were climbing and would shut off on idle. Today wont start but would flood itself. New spark plug.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: 660magnum on April 02, 2013, 09:02:12 pm
One turn both high and low
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: Vance in AK on April 10, 2013, 05:35:30 pm
I do believe that if you only had 50# of compression initially you definetly had a compression problem.  good chance that while the owner was trying to figure that out he mad multiple carb adjustments too.
You will love that saw when you get it running right.  My 026 does a great job!
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: Adirondackstihl on April 18, 2013, 04:01:40 pm
rpms were climbing and would shut off on idle. Today wont start but would flood itself. New spark plug.

Air leaky
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: kr5258 on June 09, 2013, 10:05:42 am
rpms were climbing ...

Time for a vacuum / pressure check. I'll bet a dollar the flywheel side crank seal is leaking.  Known issue on these saws.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: davbell22602 on June 25, 2013, 01:28:10 pm
Ok Rebuilding and the new needle in the K10-Wat is bigger than the one that was in it. Reuse old needle? WT394-H6, 026 Pro
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: Cut4fun . on June 25, 2013, 02:04:03 pm
One in the kit to long? 

One in carb look like pic?  Repair  Kit for your carb shows  K20-WAT

(http://www.ereplacementparts.com/images/part_p_833165_1143087120.jpg)
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: davbell22602 on June 25, 2013, 02:37:05 pm
One in the kit to long? 

One in carb look like pic?  Repair  Kit for your carb shows  K20-WAT

(http://www.ereplacementparts.com/images/part_p_833165_1143087120.jpg)

Yea its too long and big in round. The walbro carb cross reference guide has nothing for it in using k20-wat. Its lists K10-wat for the 026 and MS260. No listing for the 026pro in the guide. Thank you
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: Cut4fun . on June 25, 2013, 03:08:58 pm
One in the kit to long? 

One in carb look like pic?  Repair  Kit for your carb shows  K20-WAT

(http://www.ereplacementparts.com/images/part_p_833165_1143087120.jpg)

Yea its too long and big in round. The walbro carb cross reference guide has nothing for it in using k20-wat. Its lists K10-wat for the 026 and MS260. No listing for the 026pro in the guide. Thank you

Do what you like but your the one asking for help and your kit dont have the right part (needle) now does it. hmmmm   ;)

 But if you search for your carb walbro WT394 -h6 you come up with K20-wat  http://www.ereplacementparts.com/walbro-wt394-carburetor-parts-c-139716_139818_141243.html
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: davbell22602 on June 25, 2013, 04:31:02 pm
Yes it has the right kit on it now.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: Cut4fun . on June 29, 2013, 10:53:50 am
This is where I order carb kits from.

Showing you the difference in K20-wat and  K10-wat and what is included ;)  Need to make sure you are getting the right check valve side diaphragm too.

k20

 (http://www.mowers4u.com/oscthumb.php?src=/images/k20wat799.jpg&w=640&h=480&f=jpg&q=95&hash=49c6ac2c4f97be89797119c6a4515aab)


k10

(http://www.mowers4u.com/oscthumb.php?src=/images/k10wat.jpg&w=640&h=480&f=jpg&q=95&hash=639756f5b1025f7fa2ff107a7f9092ee)
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: Cut4fun . on June 29, 2013, 10:58:30 am
More  ;)

STIHL Chain Saw  Carburetor WT-394  Kit - Repair    K20-WAT     Kit - Gasket/Diaphragm    D10-WAT

http://wem.walbro.com/walbro/product.asp?CategoryName=026&Series=WT&partnum=WT-394&GroupName=Chain%20Saw&FamilyName=STIHL

Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: davbell22602 on June 29, 2013, 11:40:09 am
Thanks. My buddy told me the K20 has both needles in it and when in doubt it can be used instead of the K10.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: davbell22602 on August 07, 2013, 08:23:20 pm
Can anybody cross reference the serials on the 026 pro for which tank vent and filter is used? Mine is missing and the IPL shows 3 different ones.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: davbell22602 on August 09, 2013, 11:30:14 am
Fish,

Heres the pic of the 026 pro for the tank vent.

(http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad228/davbell22602/IMG_20130809_112128_664_zpsf90fa137.jpg) (http://s938.photobucket.com/user/davbell22602/media/IMG_20130809_112128_664_zpsf90fa137.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: fordfairlane78 on August 12, 2013, 02:31:55 am
I recently had an 026 pro with the same symptoms. Had sat a long time and owner wanted it running. I started playing with it and raced at any setting of the needle and no idle. I told him most likely crank seals but he insisted that I kit the carb. Same thing so he got mad,told me I had no idea what I was doing,didn't pay me a thing and off to a local shop. 2 weeks and $70 for a shop diagnosis later he stopped by and paid my $30 stating that it was crank seals, leaving a husky 346 that did need a kit. That one cost him $40. You have a vac leak somewhere so you might want to eliminate that.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: davbell22602 on August 12, 2013, 07:38:15 am
I recently had an 026 pro with the same symptoms. Had sat a long time and owner wanted it running. I started playing with it and raced at any setting of the needle and no idle. I told him most likely crank seals but he insisted that I kit the carb. Same thing so he got mad,told me I had no idea what I was doing,didn't pay me a thing and off to a local shop. 2 weeks and $70 for a shop diagnosis later he stopped by and paid my $30 stating that it was crank seals, leaving a husky 346 that did need a kit. That one cost him $40. You have a vac leak somewhere so you might want to eliminate that.

I was told its leaking fuel line and missing tank vent thats the cause.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: davbell22602 on October 24, 2013, 11:33:52 am
Any ideas on why this 026pro wont idle down when not cutting wood. Was told by 3 different shops that it be sitting and not being used. They said to use it for awhile to see what happens. I used it for few times since then. I can get it idle down at times to a point where it almost acts as if its going cut off on idle. Chain moves on idle also but when it idles down where acts as if gonna cut off the chain will stop. Is something I need to be concerned about as far as ruining the saw?

New fuel line, carb kit, tank vent, tank vent filter, and fuel filter.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: davbell22602 on October 26, 2013, 03:38:06 pm
Anybody
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: 660magnum on October 26, 2013, 04:29:02 pm
FordFairlane78 says you have a vacuum leak somewhere and so do I.

Boots get torn easily in these and the fuel line has a sharp turn that develops a crack below the carb.

The seal on the clutch side goes bad easily also.
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: davbell22602 on October 26, 2013, 04:58:57 pm
Ok, I only used it 3-4 times since replacing the fuel line. Would the impulse hose have any effect on the idle?
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: 660magnum on October 26, 2013, 05:16:57 pm
If it is kinked or loose on the end it might but your problem sound more like a big air leak in the boot or around a seal
Title: Re: Stihl Piston/Cylinder Kits
Post by: davbell22602 on October 26, 2013, 05:32:17 pm
Ok