Chainsaw Repair

Chain - Grinders - Filing - Wood Milling - Tools - Welding - Machinist - Mowers - Tillers => Chain - Bars - Grinders - Filing => Topic started by: davbell22602 on December 20, 2012, 04:11:40 pm

Title: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: davbell22602 on December 20, 2012, 04:11:40 pm
Can you still buy 1/4 inch chain? I have Mcculloch pro mac 510 with it on a 16in bar.
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: Cut4fun . on December 20, 2012, 04:26:12 pm
Yep

http://northwoodsaw.com/store/index.php?l=product_list&c=68

https://www.baileysonline.com/search.asp?CatID=11796&skw=WOODLANDPRO+10SC

http://www.baileysonline.com/search.asp?CatID=11742&skw=25AP+Oregon

https://www.baileysonline.com/category.asp?CatID=12624

Then a feebay search   http://www.ebay.com/sch/Home-Garden-/11700/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=1%2F4%20chainsaw%20chain&_sop=15
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: davbell22602 on December 20, 2012, 04:51:49 pm
Ok thanks. I was told 2 years ago that were discontinue it.
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: Cut4fun . on December 20, 2012, 06:52:58 pm
Some of the new little saws stihl has come out with has 1/4 on them.  One is the little battery powered saw.
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: HolmenTree on December 30, 2012, 10:20:06 pm
Stihl sells the best quality 1/4" chain with a boat tail mod on the cutters for carvers running the tiny dime tip bars. Stihl sells the carving bar too.

As I posted in detail over on Tree Worlds site in the Stihl 020 chain thread, I explained about how the industry changed over from 1/4" chain to 3/8" LoPro extended pitch chain in the early 1970s.
Since the 1960s low powered consumer saws needed the little 1/4 chain to make them usable to cut with. But as the consumer saws out numbered the commercial saws the 1/4 chain got too expensive to manufacture and supply the cheaper saws with. The 1/4" chain having many more pieces for every foot compared to 3/8" was much more expensive to manufacture. So an Oregon sawchain engineer invented a  3/8 pitch chain with 1/4" chain sized cutters with a base extended to accept a 3/8" pitch chassis.
The Oregon 91 series 3/8 chain was patented and on the market in 1975. Stihl introduced their Picco chain along with Windsor's chain in 1979.
But the sawchain companies never discontinued the little 1/4" chain, I guess there always was enough carver market to keep it viable in small inventorys at a high price tag.
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: RoyM on December 30, 2012, 11:17:08 pm
Oregon still offers the 25AP, it is used with the 'dime tip' carving bars. You sure your 510 has it? 3/8 lo pro would seem a better match.
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: davbell22602 on December 30, 2012, 11:53:59 pm
Oregon still offers the 25AP, it is used with the 'dime tip' carving bars. You sure your 510 has it? 3/8 lo pro would seem a better match.

Yes it has 1/4 inch chain.
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: Chris J. on December 31, 2012, 12:34:04 pm
I'm interested in hearing more about the 1/4" chain.

I've got three Skilsaw 16XX chainsaws (one has the CB) from which to make one or two runners, some NOS parts coming via feePay, & two NOS 12" Pioneer bars that someone on AS sent to me for the cost of shipping.  I figure that a 12" bar on a 34cc saw should be good for general trimming around my house & my neighbors.

http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.nsf/ed1d619968136da688256af40002b8f7/47f9603816dad3c288256b540050c9f1?OpenDocument
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: Cut4fun on December 31, 2012, 01:28:20 pm
I have a customers poulan S25DA that used 1/4 and has 2 loops of chain in the case with a old oregon file guide for the small chain. Thinking 1/8 file guide maybe. Would have to look to be sure.
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: Cut4fun on January 01, 2013, 07:18:03 am
Stihl 020, MS200 owners may want to try 1/4" chain. I run it on my MS200 with a quarter tip carving bar sometimes while doing pruning and some removals and I like it better then the little 3/8". Stihl still makes the 1/4" .050 chain, the RM and now the new RMC. But they don't produce a sprocket nose 1/4" bar,only a solid nose carving bar.
I just found out Oregon still makes the 1/4" .050 25AP chain and the 25 Double Guard 1/4" sprocket nose bar in 12" and 14" .050 with the small A041 mount, a little different then the 020/MS200 mount but will still fit. The slots are both 8.2 mm on both bar mounts ,just a little different in tail and hole design. Everthing will bolt up with little mods. I will try this setup on my MS200 right away. I like the cutting action and filing of the 1/4" chain, its cutters are shaped just like the fullsize 3/8 or .404 only smaller of course.
Of interest the A041 mount is the # for the Husqvarna 338XPT.

Ok....3/8" LoPro extended pitch sawchain has cutters with the cutting portion [side & top plate]the size of a 1/4" pitch with it's base "extending" in length to accept a 3/8" pitch chassis [side straps, drive links].
In other words a cutting link with an extended pitch relative to the pitch of the drive link, and a cutting edge rearward of the line bisecting the 2 cutting link rivet holes.

To add to my last post here is a little history lesson .......I can't resist.

*Early 1960's, consumer chainsaws arrived on the market. These saws were more lightweight, less expensive, and of lower horsepower than the commercial saws of the day. The smallest available sawchain 1/4" pitch was used on these saws. Only trouble was the 1/4" sawchain with many more links per foot compared to 3/8" pitch was expensive to manufacture.

*In 1972, the high cost of the 1/4" chain led a Oregon brand sawchain engineer to develop a less expensive consumer chain for use on the very poplar consumer chainsaws. He applied his efforts in developing a 3/8" pitch chain which incorporated cutting links used on the 1/4 inch chain.

*In the fall of 1974 after several changes in the chains design relating to safety guard links and depth gauge shape the chain was named "91" and marketing began. But problems were at the patent office.

*In Dec. 1975 the Oregon "91" chain was finally patented after first application was made in Sept. 1973 . In 1979 Stihl introduced it's own 3/8" extended pitch "Picco" and Windsor it's "Lo Kick" 3/8" extended pitch chain called 50RG.

*1981 -82 Omark Industries sues Textron [Homelite] for copying the 91 design.
From the fall of 1974 to Feb.1978 Homelite and Terry ,2 Textron subsidiaries, purchased 650,000 feet of the Oregon chain. In 1974 Textron began testing the Oregon chain in hope of developing its own extended pitch economy chain. Eventually the chain was developed and marketed as Pro-Cut 375.

Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: Eccentric on December 15, 2013, 10:51:46 pm
I have a red Craftsman 1.9 branded Poulan XX-D that's set up with 1/4" chain.  Little bugger pulls it very well, and is a well balanced saw.  I'm sorting out some oiler issues, and then I'll put a dime tip carving bar on it with some Oregon 25AP.

Also have a few 1/4" pitch sprockets for the XXV series saws, and will probably set up one of my XXV's (probably my Craftsman red 1.9A branded 25D) with 1/4".  They'll be fun to do some carving with. 

I could have gotten a partial roll of Oregon 25 (somewhere between 50 and 100' on an OLD 100' reel) for $50 at an estate sale a while back.  Was already blowing all the cash I had on hand on other stuff (including a box full of carb diaphragms, a Husky 2100CD crankcase and starter, and approximately 46' of Oregon .404-.063 skip square chisel chain), and had to leave the 1/4" stuff on the shelf (along with a partial reel of .325 pitch chain and a NICE Echo CS302S).  I went back later with more green, and all the stuff I'd left behind was gone....
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: Philbert on December 15, 2013, 11:09:24 pm
I love hearing the history / development side of chainsaws, chains, etc.  Thanks HolmenTree and Cut4fun for re-posting that!

I wonder why Oregon went with a low profile 3/8 chain versus a low profile .325 chassis for the smaller chain?

Philbert
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: Al Smith on December 16, 2013, 05:45:02 am
The first Poulan s-25 I bought in maybe 1974-75 had 1/4" chain which I filed with a 5/32 file .The original was either semi chisel or chipper .

Somewhere in that time period Oregon made round chisel in 1/4" both full comp and skip and would that little saw ever cut using that chain .Ralph Nadar was instrimental in taking it off the market claiming it posed a danger to the owners who were not professionals because it had no anti kick backs .
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: Al Smith on December 16, 2013, 06:04:30 am

I wonder why Oregon went with a low profile 3/8 chain versus a low profile .325 chassis for the smaller chain?

Philbert
I can only assume Oregon followed an industrial trend .Passed the late 70's early 80's Poulan and others hada variety of smaller displacement saws that required smaller type chain .It would obviously be more cost effective to produce low profile 3/8" as compaired to 1/4" .

Even if you go back as far as the piston ported engine design becoming the norm over reed valve engines .Most of the reed valve Macs and Homelites used .404 chain ,heavy duty stuff .The piston ports mostly used 3/8 chain,lighter,less bite .It utilized the speed of the piston ports where as the .404 made use of the high torque of the reeders .
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: Philbert on December 16, 2013, 12:00:00 pm
I get the need for a small bite chain that was more cost-effective to manufacture, but I would have thought of .325 as the 'next step up' in pitch, instead of .375.

But that's just me. I also don't get why STIHL supplies smaller output 16" saws with heavier gauge .063 chain and higher output 25" saws with lighter gauge .050 chain.

Philbert
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: Al Smith on December 16, 2013, 01:49:59 pm
Well first off 3/8" low profile and standard 3/8" are not one in the same .Nothing interchanges to make them work .Not the drive sprockets the bar nose sprockets nothing .Even though the terminolgy of "3/8" is misleading it's one size below .325 .


To make it more confusing 3/8" low comes in two different guages ,.050 and .043 .Then again .325 comes in .050 and .063 maybe .058 for all I know .Driver guage seems to be a regional thing with what is the norm or popular  in a praticular area .


You want to really get confused try .404 .Heavy chain used normally on over 100 cc saws ,usually in .063 guage .That 48" hardnose on the saw in my avatar is .058 .

I have a 32" bar on a Mac 805/850 that originally had a .404 nose but in .050 guage .I changed it to 3/8" standard.
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: Cut4fun . on October 09, 2016, 06:04:22 pm
2 of the saws I just got come with stihl 1/4" and one I dont know what it is and has a O on the preset and 25 on the drive link.

1/4" 9T rims.

So what was the file size for these?  I cant recall off hand. 1/8" ?
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: Philbert on October 09, 2016, 11:25:01 pm
Pferd catalog says 5/32"
https://www.pferdusa.com/info/PDF/CSF.PDF

Oregon saws 5/32" for theirs (25AP)  too.

Philbert
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: Cut4fun . on October 10, 2016, 12:30:43 pm
Thanks save me from having to se if I had 1/8" still from back when I played scratching on chains.

I was thinking the one with O and 25 might be Oregon 25 last night.   https://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/AppGuideMoreInfo.htm

Dont think this is AP. Dont recall the extra dorsal fin beside the rakers.

Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: Philbert on October 10, 2016, 12:46:56 pm
Kind of odd that 1/4" pitch chain is .050 and not .043 gauge. Oh well, as if things made sense.


Philbert
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: Cut4fun . on October 10, 2016, 03:40:17 pm
Thanks save me from having to se if I had 1/8" still from back when I played scratching on chains.

I was thinking the one with O and 25 might be Oregon 25 last night.   https://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/AppGuideMoreInfo.htm

Dont think this is AP. Dont recall the extra dorsal fin beside the rakers.



Its 25AP how I missed the dorsal fin I'll never know. Guess it is getting like that.
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: farmboy on October 10, 2016, 10:02:12 pm
Bought up a bunch of 1/4" chain for a chainsaw carver several years ago.  Never heard from him again.  Let me know if you need some.  Have bunch of joining links too.
Shep
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: HolmenTree on October 14, 2016, 10:09:16 pm
One of my projects for this winter is putting the wee little Stihl 71PM .043 1/4" chain on my Husqvarna T536Li XP top handle saw. Replacing the .043 3/8 LP
71PM takes a 1/8" file. Got the Stihl .043-1/4"bar and Husqvarna 1/4" sprocket still on order.
Winter came early here 2 weeks ago, more snow now then we had all last winter. Still snowing.
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: Al Smith on October 15, 2016, 06:11:34 am
Couple years a back I found a Stihl 015 for wifes cousin which proved to be a good little saw for him,light weight etc .It came with a case and several brand new 1/4" chains .You can find ready made loops on occasion on flea bay .Some are way over priced and some are rather reasonable .

Rather odd ,I haven't seen that chain size  in chisel since about late 70's when Oregon stopped making it .
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: Cut4fun . on October 15, 2016, 09:02:53 am

Winter came early here 2 weeks ago, more snow now then we had all last winter. Still snowing.

They keep saying brutal cold and lots of snow here this year.  Hope their wrong.
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: Al Smith on October 15, 2016, 07:14:29 pm
We're due for one .It's been a while since we've had snow butt deep to a tall Indian and 20 below .

Got 5 cords of firewood will have 10 when I'm done cutting ,always have plenty of food,usually a case of beer.All I need is my lady friend,let it snow .About Dec. I'll make certain to have more than 1 case on hand .
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: heimannm on October 17, 2016, 01:51:40 pm
I have a pretty good selection of 1/4" pitch chain, some of it is "low vibration" with the extra hump, some w/o the humps.  Tough to work on with fat fingers and bad eyesight...

I have never seen, or don't remember seeing any 1/4" pitch chain with a chisel cutter, every thing is semi chisel that I have run across.

Last week I had a friend stop by on his way from California to Massachusetts with a roll of odd chain...the tie straps and cutters were the profile of an LP chain, but it would not go around the sprocket nose of an LP bar, fit a normal 3/8" sprocket just fine.  I thought maybe it was LP chain with drives from a full 3/8 chain.  In any case we made up a loop for his newly acquired SP70 with a 20" bar and went out to make some test cuts.  Seemed to work just fine.

Mark
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: Cut4fun . on October 17, 2016, 01:59:27 pm
I have a pretty good selection of 1/4" pitch chain, some of it is "low vibration" with the extra hump, some w/o the humps.  Tough to work on with fat fingers and bad eyesight...

I have never seen, or don't remember seeing any 1/4" pitch chain with a chisel cutter, every thing is semi chisel that I have run across.

Last week I had a friend stop by on his way from California to Massachusetts with a roll of odd chain...the tie straps and cutters were the profile of an LP chain, but it would not go around the sprocket nose of an LP bar, fit a normal 3/8" sprocket just fine.  I thought maybe it was LP chain with drives from a full 3/8 chain.  In any case we made up a loop for his newly acquired SP70 with a 20" bar and went out to make some test cuts.  Seemed to work just fine.

Mark

Sound like oregon 76 or stihl 33  if 050   and 77 058   http://chainsawrepair.createaforum.com/chain/oregon-72lg-and-76lg/

I put a 20" loop of the 76 on a 550 for testing. I didnt care for the 20" on 550.

Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: Al Smith on October 18, 2016, 05:07:25 am
Ralph Nadar and crew we the ones that put the halts on 1/4" chisel.They said it was unsafe for consumer users .He claimed little saws like the S-25 Poulan  were consumer saws but failed to accept they were also arborists saws .

He also made a fuss about skip chain,claimed it cost as much but the user was only getting half the cutters .This info was given to me from the owner of a shop where I used to buy my chain,might be true might be untrue.
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: Al Smith on October 18, 2016, 05:23:09 am
I might put a little blurb about chain .In the 60's and 70's in this area all we had was chipper chain,I never saw even semi chisel until around late 70's and never saw chisel except that 1/4" stuff until the 90's .The later the only place you could buy it was a saw shop.
Other places,like TSC did not carry it .Of course today we have the internet and in a matter of minutes you can find about anything but it wasn't like that back  when.In the 60's nobody filed chains.You just hauled the dull ones to the saw shop which was also the farm equipment dealer or hardware store .I never filed a chain until the mid 70's,never knew you could .
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: Philbert on October 18, 2016, 11:37:27 am
Older saw ran a lot slower speed, high torque, compared to today. 

I don't know what kind of chain we had! Somebody else sharpened them. Did not become 'chain aware' until the 90's!

Philbert
Title: Re: 1/4 Inch Chain
Post by: Eccentric on October 23, 2016, 08:35:47 pm
I really like Oregon 76 on my 41cc Homelite Super E-Z's.  Hoping to get some more.  It's a great match for those strong little 41cc saws that act like they're bigger.  .325 pitch chain sized cutters (sharpens with a 3/16" file) but on a lightened 3/8" pitch chassis with full size 3/8" pitch drivers.  Will try some on my 36-46cc Poulvarnas too.

1/4" chain was released for little saws (Mac PM6, Homelite XL, Poulan XXV, etc) long before 3/8LP was introduced.  I don't like it.  Too damn hard for me to see and sharpen.  Also a zillion cutters to sharpen, even on these short bars.  It is really smooth for carving however.  I have one saw (Craftsman 1.9 branded Poulan 20D) that will remain 1/4" pitch for carving shenanegans.  Every other 1/4 pitch saw of mine either gets sold/given away, converted to LP, or parted out...