Chainsaw Repair

Chain - Grinders - Filing - Wood Milling - Tools - Welding - Machinist - Mowers - Tillers => Chain - Bars - Grinders - Filing => Topic started by: davbell22602 on October 03, 2013, 08:28:02 pm


Title: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: davbell22602 on October 03, 2013, 08:28:02 pm
Anybody ever tried using the Stens chain grinder wheels? I'm still using the OEM pink wheels that came with my Oregon 511A. Thought about trying the Stens ruby wheels to see if how they do.
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: 660magnum on October 03, 2013, 08:48:18 pm
The Stens ruby wheels in 5-3/4 X 7/8 X 3/16 & 1/8 are discontinued items only available while supples last

Here's what I bought

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Abrasive-CBN-5-3-4-Chainsaw-Wheels-for-3-8-and-404-Pitch-Chains-/261279745607?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd57c8647
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: 660magnum on October 03, 2013, 08:49:42 pm
The Molmab wheels from Bailey's are on sale for $11.99 right now
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: 660magnum on October 03, 2013, 08:53:02 pm
I bought some wheels from TSC farm store and they are a rather poor excuse for a chain sharpening wheel, I could turn out a decent chain with them.

The center hole is not well defined
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: davbell22602 on October 03, 2013, 09:16:15 pm
Never heard of the Molmab wheels. I heard of the diamond wheels but didnt know where everyone was buying them at?
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: 660magnum on October 03, 2013, 09:39:49 pm
The Diamond wheels are available on Ebay and also direct from Diamond Wheel Inc but the price is the same.

http://www.diamondwheelinc.com/woodcutting/

These are the Chinese wheels that TSC sells for $14.99

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Timber-Tuff-CS-BMM316-Chain-Sharpener-Grinding-Wheel-/271178341822?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f237d1dbe

Here are the Molmabs from Bailey's. I have some for my Silvey and they are a lot better than the Chinese wheels

http://www.baileysonline.com/Chainsaws/Grinding-Stones-Wheels/Wheels/Molemab-Grinding-Wheel-5-3-4-x-3-16.axd

Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: 660magnum on October 03, 2013, 09:40:41 pm
Molemab wheels are made in Italy
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: davbell22602 on October 03, 2013, 10:02:56 pm
I might just bite the bullet and get the diamond wheel. Might to try one of those Molemab til I get diamond wheel though.
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: 660magnum on October 03, 2013, 10:21:10 pm
Bailey's hits you up for $7.99 to ship one wheel
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: 660magnum on October 04, 2013, 12:51:29 am
Here is the Northern Tools site.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/NTESearch?storeId=6970&ipp=24&Ntt=chain%2Bsharpener

Those $6.99 wheels will be a challenge to use.
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: 660magnum on October 04, 2013, 12:56:29 am
Here is a picture of a early 511A like mine with the 10* tilting vice.

This one and mine have no light.

The off-on SW is a steel toggle SW.

The vice clamp is a cam action device.

Mine does very well on repeating the angles and cutter length side to side.
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: 660magnum on October 04, 2013, 01:17:21 am
I have found that this company is pretty good for Oregon/Techomec grinder parts.

http://sharpchain.com/shop/

I have ordered from them and the service, packing, and shipping time were excellent.

I bought a new vice for a Tecomec Jolly for $114.95. I noticed he went up on the price to $139.95 after I bought a vice.

The new vice came as a complete revolving assembly with the tilting plate. The Tecomec part was identical to my existing Oregon 511A vice.

Now that he went up on the price for a 511A style vice it is cheaper to make your 510A/511A into a early 511AX style grinder with the $128.50 new style vice.

http://sharpchain.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_42&products_id=95

In shopping for a new vice, many places were in excess of $150 for their vices. Do a search on Google.

Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: 660magnum on October 04, 2013, 01:27:24 am
If you plan on doing rakers with your chain sharpener grinder, Instead of replacing a worn 1/4" wheel, I suggest you use the 5/16" width harvester wheel to do your rakers. My used grinder came with a 5/16" width grinding wheel.
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: davbell22602 on October 04, 2013, 08:13:22 am
Here is a picture of a early 511A like mine with the 10* tilting vice.

This one and mine have no light.

The off-on SW is a steel toggle SW.

The vice clamp is a cam action device.

Mine does very well on repeating the angles and cutter length side to side.

Thats the same exact grinder I have that in that photo. I got mine from Northern Tool back in 97 for $279.99.
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: 660magnum on October 04, 2013, 08:56:22 am
Yes, I consider my early Oregon 511A to be the best grinder I could have bought for my occasional use situation.

The motor is smooth as silk and it has a complete brand new vice assembly.

All the parts are proven with no fancy frills.
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: davbell22602 on October 04, 2013, 09:01:34 am
One thing i dont like sharpening chain is the pink wheel picks up dirt, oil, grease, etc. off the chain easy. I have to clean it if it gets black lookin with the stone.
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: 660magnum on October 04, 2013, 09:15:49 am
Correct.

I have the same experience. You can see this dirt on the wheel. The pink, salmon, blue, and white wheels let you see this dirt. The dirt is a little harder to notice on the dark gray wheels.

If you smell around, you will find where people have a 5 gallon bucket to soak and clean their old dull chains before grinding. But you will need to re-oil the chains after grinding.
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: davbell22602 on October 04, 2013, 09:44:10 am
I have a stihl chain thats pretty oily loaded. Looks like it laying in a puddle of bar oil for sometime. I thought about putting in my chemical dip bucket to clean it up a little.
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: 660magnum on October 04, 2013, 09:54:25 am
+1
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: Philbert on October 04, 2013, 07:44:48 pm
I have been told that the diamond wheels are only for carbide cutters - that the matrix will 'fill up' if used on steel.

ABN (Amber Boron Nitrate) and CBN (Cubic Boron Nitrate) wheels are the ones for regular chains.  Apparently, there are some quality differences between the $100 wheels and the $250 wheels.  If you custom order one of the wheels, you can also spec the size of the grit (like with sandpaper), the shape of the edge, and the type of abrasive.

I typically use the Molemab wheels (a great deal when on sale at Bailey's) or the Oregon ones.  Tecomec (who makes the Italian grinders under several different labels) offers several different wheels for these, like the different wheels offered for the Silvey grinders.  Some cut faster and cooler, but wear out faster.  Some leave a smoother finish.  Etc.  Again, like sandpaper, they are made with different abrasives, different bonds, and different size grit.  These wheels can be much harder to find.

Philbert
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: Philbert on October 04, 2013, 07:55:25 pm
Quote
One thing i dont like sharpening chain is the pink wheel picks up dirt, oil, grease, etc. off the chain easy. I have to clean it if it gets black lookin with the stone.

One of the key things I had to learn with the grinder was to dress the wheel regularly to keep bringing up fresh abrasive, and not just to shape the edge.  This helps it cut faster and reduces overheating (from rubbing dull grit against the cutter).

I always clean chains before I grind them.  I know that some guys think that I have OCD, etc.  But it lets me see what I am working with, if the chain has any damage, etc, and keeps the crud out of the grinding wheel.  Compressed air for fairly clean chains.  'SuperClean' (purple stuff with sodium hydroxide) for chains crusted in crud.

660magnum is correct - if you use a strong degreaser you need to rinse and dry your chain quickly to avoid rust.  I do 200 degrees for 10 minutes in the oven on an old cookie sheet to remove the moisture, then coat heavily with WD-40 (penetrates in-between the links and around the rivets better than viscous bar&chain oil).

Philbert
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: 660magnum on October 04, 2013, 07:57:28 pm
+1
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: Cut4fun . on July 12, 2014, 06:41:11 pm
Learned something else today. Do not lift hand into grinding wheel while on. Makes a nice mark right on the ole knuckle.   :-[ :-\ :-X :o
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: 660magnum on July 12, 2014, 08:14:48 pm
I hope it mends OK.
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: Philbert on July 14, 2014, 01:19:48 am
I have been trying the 'resinoid' grinding wheels recently, and comparing them to the standard 'vitrified' wheels (Oregon, Tecomec, Molemab, etc.) on my Oregon 511A grinder, based on some comments posted by others.

The resinoid wheels look like masonry or steel wheels used in cut off saws, angle grinders, etc.  The only ones I have found for this grinder are TOTAL brand wheels (TL64-R and TL66-R), which I ordered through a local shop from Tilton.  Cost was about the same as conventional wheels ($15-$20 each).   Also available on line from sharpchain.com.  Some resinoid wheels are, apparently, also available for Silvey grinders.

I tried them on several .325 and 3/8 STIHL chains.  My initial impressions were positive:
- much less likely to 'burn' a cutter, although, I was able to do this intentionally on some scrap chain;
- left less of a burr on the outside side plate of Left hand cutters, using a non-reversable grinder (not sure why, exactly);
- leaves an acceptable finish on the cutters, although, maybe not as smooth as the pink, vitrified wheels I was using;
- makes more dust.  I try to grind out doors, or in a garage with the door open, but this could be an issue in a small shop;
- has that same smell as the cut off wheels mentioned above.

I would encourage anyone having problems or concerns with 'burning' or 'bluing' cutters to try these - could be a low cost solution.

Philbert
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: Cut4fun . on July 14, 2014, 02:05:43 pm
Philbert, can you shape them?
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: Philbert on July 14, 2014, 03:23:29 pm
Yes. They come with a square/flat edge, and I shaped them with the small dressing stone that came with my grinder.

I dress them periodically for shape, out of habit, but not sure if I need to dress them to expose fresh abrasive, as they are supposed to wear faster.

Have only done about a half dozen chains with them, so these are still early impressions.

Anybody have experience with them on a Silvey?

Philbert
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: Philbert on July 29, 2014, 06:33:49 pm
Resinoid Wheels Now at Bailey's!

I contacted Bailey's, because these wheels were hard to find, and they agreed to start carrying them (it may take them a few weeks to get their first batch).

This is good news, because there was only one on-line vendor (that I could find) who was offering them, and they are showing them at Bailey's pricing ($7.99 and $8.99)!  Use the links below, as they are not showing up in the search function (one of the Bailey's site's weaknesses).

http://www.baileysonline.com/shop.axd/ProductDetails?edp_no=662811
http://www.baileysonline.com/shop.axd/ProductDetails?edp_no=662812

This makes them significantly less expensive than even their Molemab vitrified wheels on sale. Worth checking out.  I have used them on several more chains and will be ordering a few extra at this pricing.

Philbert
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: Cut4fun . on July 29, 2014, 10:02:53 pm
Cool


I should be good to go on wheels for a long long time. I bought a bunch of Madsen's wheels with adapters for my USG.
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: bleed_limegreen on August 08, 2014, 07:15:03 pm
I like to put dirty chains in my heated ultra sonic cleaner for a bit it really gets them clean with only a small amount of purple stuff in water them bake them at 200 to dry in toaster oven... It is amazing to see how much crud comes off chains
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: 3000 FPS on August 09, 2014, 09:42:11 pm
I usually just blow my chains off with compressed air before grinding.   Thought about using the ultra sonic but I have not tried it yet.   
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: Philbert on August 09, 2014, 10:06:01 pm
Probably already posted this somewhere here on CR ('CSR'?)

If a chain is pretty clean, I might just wipe/brush off excess oil or light dirt/wood chips, etc.  A lot of the chains I get, scrounge, or accept into Philbert's 'No-Kill-Chain-Shelter' are pretty grungy.  On some, I can't read the markings.  And often, they have defects (rust, burrs, **** links, loose rivets, improvised repairs, upside down/inside out tie straps, etc.) hidden by gunk.  I like to fix these before sharpening, and to keep the gunk out of the grinding wheels.

- I dip the dirty chains in a commercial, water-based degreaser with lye (sodium hydroxide).  'Super Clean' is one brand I use.  Note that not all 'purple cleaners' have the sodium hydroxide, which makes a big difference, so read the label. 10 - 15 seconds is all that is needed sometimes.

- Brush lightly with an old toothbrush, in the bottom of the laundry tub, wearing gloves, and splash goggles.  Repeat if necessary.

- Rinse well in clean water.

- Dry on an old, garage sale cookie sheet for 15 to 20 minutes at 200*F to remove any water and prevent rusting.

- Since this removes all the lubrication, I re-lube after sharpening with a heavy coat of WD-40, since this is thin and penetrates well around the rivets.  I have another old baking pad with an absorbent pad in the bottom I use for this.  Brush the WD-40 on with another old toothbrush, and run the chain over a dowel to make sure that all the links are free and lubricated.

Sounds like a lot, but I try to clean/sharpen chains in batches, so not much time per chain.  I tried the USC, and that works, but it takes longer and is harder to clean afterwards IMO.

Philbert
Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: Philbert on August 30, 2014, 11:02:21 pm
Got the Bailey's/Molemab wheel (Left) to compare with the Tilton/Total wheel (Right)! Look identical Cost was almost half.
The Molemab wheel is brand new. The Total wheel has been used on about 15 chains - wear is not noticeable.

Philbert

Title: Re: Chainsaw Chain Grinder Wheels
Post by: Cut4fun . on August 30, 2014, 11:18:14 pm
Got the Bailey's/Molemab wheel (Left) to compare with the Tilton/Total wheel (Right)! Look identical Cost was almost half.
The Molemab wheel is brand new. The Total wheel has been used on about 15 chains - wear is not noticeable.

Philbert



Good to know. Thanks for all the digging in and up on this stuff.