Chainsaw Repair

Chain - Grinders - Filing - Wood Milling - Tools - Welding - Machinist - Mowers - Tillers => Chain - Bars - Grinders - Filing => Topic started by: labdad on October 31, 2013, 09:17:19 pm

Title: Grinding Angles?
Post by: labdad on October 31, 2013, 09:17:19 pm
Ok, I just bought a lightly used 511A and a Oregon chain break and spinner at a estate sale so cheap I can't even tell you what I paid ;D.  I have always filed my chains but want to learn to grind them now. I run Huskys but some of my friends use Stihls and it looks like the Stihl chain is a whole different animal. Whats the deal with the Stihl chain angles.
Title: Re: Grinding Angles?
Post by: 660magnum on October 31, 2013, 09:27:42 pm
If you take your chains to the chainsaw dealer, they all get ground at the same angles - 30 horizontal degrees on the top plate and 60 vertical degrees. No 10 degree droop on the chisel chains.

The Stihl chain angles in the chart usually represent the complement of the Oregon chain angles. However many of Oregon's angles say 55 degrees for the vertical angle though most people use 60 degrees.

I have a 511A and it grinds a Stihl chain just as well as it does Oregon chains. I do them at the same angles.

I do the 10 degree droop on the chisel chains
Title: Re: Grinding Angles?
Post by: Philbert on October 31, 2013, 09:33:02 pm
Don't worry about brand specific angles.  You can look up the recommended angles for major chains on their Internet sites, but it's really up to you. 

Most people grind the top plate at 30 with a grinder head tilt of 60.  They may grind + or -10 for full chisel chains (vise tilt).

Download a copy of the Oregon 511A grinder manual from the Bailey's website, and pay attention to the part about centering your vise to get the same angles and cutter lengths on both sides.

Philbert
Title: Re: Grinding Angles?
Post by: labdad on October 31, 2013, 09:35:56 pm
That's what I was curious about, I printed off a chart from Stihl and it was showing some different angles.  Being new to this and having never messed with Stihl chains before I didn't want to mess up a buddies chain. It's the kind of thing you would never live down. I'm sure you know what I mean. :-[
Title: Re: Grinding Angles?
Post by: Philbert on October 31, 2013, 09:39:07 pm
660Magnum types faster that me, but we pretty much said the same thing!  I believe that he referred to a chart floating around for settings on the STIHL USG grinder, which is set up different than the one you just acquired.

Because you now own a grinder, you can grind the cutters at any angle you choose!

Philbert
Title: Re: Grinding Angles?
Post by: 660magnum on October 31, 2013, 09:42:35 pm
I think Philbert owns a 511A also?
Title: Re: Grinding Angles?
Post by: labdad on October 31, 2013, 09:46:49 pm
Thanks for clearing that up, the Stihl grinder chart is the one I printed and what had me confused. It all makes more sense now. Every now and then I have a bout with "sometimers" and things get a little fuzzy.

PS the little plate with the angles is worn off, any idea where I could pick one up?  They don't show a part # for it anymore.
Title: Re: Grinding Angles?
Post by: Philbert on October 31, 2013, 09:49:53 pm
Choose your grinding wheel thickness according to the pitch of the chain, just like you would file size.

Choose your grinding angles based on the expected use (hardwood, softwood, etc.), same as you would for filing.

Pick some old or scrap chains to practice on.  Dress the edge of the wheel and only take the great wheel down as far as you would take the file. Don't try to grind all the way to the gullets. Same as with a file. Picking up a pattern here?

Take your time and use lots of little taps. If you want you, can take a scrap chain and intentionally overheat/blue the cutters to get a feel for what that takes. Then work to develop a light touch so that you don't blue them when sharpening.

Philbert
Title: Re: Grinding Angles?
Post by: labdad on October 31, 2013, 09:56:47 pm
Thanks for the tips, I have been practicing on some old chains I have laying around.  I think I am ready to make a go at a good chain, we will see what happens. Thanks again!
Title: Re: Grinding Angles?
Post by: 3000 FPS on October 31, 2013, 09:57:04 pm
Another key to not over heating the cutters when grinding is to keep the grinding wheel dressed and clean.
Title: Re: Grinding Angles?
Post by: 660magnum on October 31, 2013, 10:05:32 pm
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Oregon-Tecomec-TL136-511-510-Chain-Grinder-Scale-KIT-Jolly-Super-Jolly-NEW-K002-/110982843091?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d717cad3

http://sharpchain.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_40&products_id=159
Title: Re: Grinding Angles?
Post by: Philbert on October 31, 2013, 10:07:31 pm
OH, THAT'S why you got the grinder so cheap!  The angle scale is the most important part!  Better send the whole unit to me for parts, and I will pay you $5 more that what you spent, plus shipping.  Better send the spinner/breaker set too!

I have had a 511A for several years and it has been very reliable.  Also, kind of a 'standard' that others are compared to (e.g. Asian copies, newer models, etc.).  You will find it very useful.

Oregon is usually very good with customer service.  If you call their 800 number and describe what you need, they should be able to help you get a replacement scale I am assuming that it is the one for the vise rotation that you need?).  Note that the screwed on angle scale for the grinder head tilt may or may not agree with the one cast into the main casting.  These are fairly well made tools, and provide good accuracy (repeatable angles), but they are not super precise, aerospace instruments.

You may find that '30 degrees' is not exactly 30 degrees, which is why the calibration part is important.  Mount a new chain in the vise and try to 'match' the angles.  Then adjust your scale accordingly, if you can.  I always check R and L cutters to make sure that they are the same after I do the first one on 'the other side', and make any adjustments necessary.

Congrats on a nice score.

Philbert
Title: Re: Grinding Angles?
Post by: labdad on October 31, 2013, 10:11:19 pm
Hey thanks again, I have one on the way.
Title: Re: Grinding Angles?
Post by: 660magnum on October 31, 2013, 10:15:32 pm
On my grinder the tilt scale on the back side is right on with the scale up under the head at 90 degrees but the farther you get away fro 90 the worse off it is. I don't use it anyway.

The scale on the very front for swinging the vice is right on as long as you don't tilt the vice but I know how much (which way it is off) with the vice tilted.
Title: Re: Grinding Angles?
Post by: Philbert on October 31, 2013, 10:16:57 pm
511 A Owners Manual (includes angle chart)

http://www.baileysonline.com/PDF/Oregon511amanual_english.pdf

Oregon Maintenance and Safety Manual (with recommended angles by chain type)

http://www.oregonproducts.com/maintenance/manual.htm

Philbert

Title: Re: Grinding Angles?
Post by: labdad on October 31, 2013, 10:20:02 pm
I would love to send the grinder to you but I bolted it down and welded the base to the beam in my wall, now I would have to send you my whole shed...sorry. Again thanks for all the tips, this is a really great place to spend some time.
Title: Re: Grinding Angles?
Post by: 660magnum on October 31, 2013, 10:36:36 pm
With the regular 3/8" chain on the big chainsaws you use the 3/16" width wheel.

With the big .325 chain like Stihl .325 RS, you use the 3/16" width wheel

With the 3/8" Low Profile (PICO) chain you use the 1/8" width wheel. Note that there are .325 chains (Oregon) with essentially the Low Profile cutter and you must use the 1/8" chain on them also.

Bailey's has had some Molemab (Italy) grinding wheels real cheap ($12) but their shipping will eat you up unless you buy several things at once. Molemabs are pretty good.

Chinese wheels like the Timber Tuf on Ebay are awful wobble wheels that have a poorly defined center hole. You can grind a chain with one of these but you have to go slow and be careful. Don't take the wheel off for anything or you will have to dress it round again.

If you want to do rakers, use the 5/16" thick wheel. I do rakers with a file.
Title: Re: Grinding Angles?
Post by: labdad on October 31, 2013, 11:02:54 pm
I bought a new wheel locally, the one on there was suspect. What I noticed was the old wheel was made in Canada and the new one is from Mexico and is not the truest running wheel I have seen.
Title: Re: Grinding Angles?
Post by: 660magnum on October 31, 2013, 11:59:21 pm
Oregon branded wheels may be made in Canada, Mexico, or Italy. I don't know if one is better than the other? I have some Mexican wheels and they did better than Chinese wheels.

Pacific wheel makes some nice grinding wheels. You might find them at Madsens $14.50 + Shipping?