Chainsaw Repair
Chain - Grinders - Filing - Wood Milling - Tools - Welding - Machinist - Mowers - Tillers => Chain - Bars - Grinders - Filing => Topic started by: Majorpayne on March 28, 2015, 04:58:19 pm
-
Looks like Oregon has updated their grinders.
http://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/accessories/BenchGrinder_520-120.htm
http://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/accessories/BenchGrinder_620-120.htm
Anybody know anything about them?
-
This is the first I have seen one.
Appears to be some reversion back to the 511A. Maybe the best of the 511AX and the 511A? Plus a little lipstick? And a price increase?
I'm perfectly happy with my 511A. But if I needed a new grinder the 520-120 might be it?
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200641887_200641887?cm_mmc=Google-pla-_-Logging-_-Chain%20Saw%20Chain%20Sharpeners%20%2B%20Maintenance-_-47084&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=47084&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=47084&gclid=CLzbjamAzMQCFZGIaQod0nsA0Q
-
This is the first I have seen one.
Appears to be some reversion back to the 511A. Maybe the best of the 511AX and the 511A? Plus a little lipstick? And a price increase?
I'm perfectly happy with my 511A. But if I needed a new grinder the 520-120 might be it?
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200641887_200641887?cm_mmc=Google-pla-_-Logging-_-Chain%20Saw%20Chain%20Sharpeners%20%2B%20Maintenance-_-47084&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=47084&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=47084&gclid=CLzbjamAzMQCFZGIaQod0nsA0Q
That is how I found out about it, thumbing through a NT catalog yesterday. They say they improved the vise. I sent an email to Oregon
today asking the difference between the 520 and a 511ax like I have.
-
This is the first I have seen one.
Appears to be some reversion back to the 511A. Maybe the best of the 511AX and the 511A? Plus a little lipstick? And a price increase?
I'm perfectly happy with my 511A. But if I needed a new grinder the 520-120 might be it?
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200641887_200641887?cm_mmc=Google-pla-_-Logging-_-Chain%20Saw%20Chain%20Sharpeners%20%2B%20Maintenance-_-47084&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=47084&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=47084&gclid=CLzbjamAzMQCFZGIaQod0nsA0Q
That is how I found out about it, thumbing through a NT catalog yesterday. They say they improved the vise. I sent an email to Oregon
today asking the difference between the 520 and a 511ax like I have.
This is the response
Technical Services and Sales
12:51 PM (5 hours ago)
to me
Hi Brad,
Thank you for your interest in the Oregon grinders,
The difference between the two is the vise, we have experienced some issues with the 511AX vise breaking so they changed the design, it will still have two pinch points but will look similar to the old 511A vise, using a cam lock design to open and close. This vise is designed to hold ¼, .325, 3/8 low profile, 3/8 standard and .404 chains. If you are sharpening ¾ pitch you will need vise # 571887
regards
Alison Heynderickx
Lead, Technical Support
Customer Service Representative
P: 503.653.4706
800.223.5168
F: 503.353.6423
E: Alison.heynderickx@blount.com
-
Just purchased this one: Oregon 310-120 Mini Grinder
http://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/accessories/BenchGrinder_310-120.htm
Looks like some of the 'Harbor Freight' type grinders, but has a cast aluminum base instead of plastic; nicer chain placement dog; comes with 2 wheels, dressing brick, wheel profile gauge, etc.
About twice the price of the (discounted) cheap versions, and about half the price of their old, Tecomec style mini grinder. Price may come down once more vendors start selling it, offeering it on eBay, etc.
I am going to play with it, and compare it to a few of the cheap mini grinders I bought as a challenge earlier this year to see if it is any better.
Fixed grinder head tilt angle (fixes the top plate cutting edge angle); adjustable vise rotation (top plate angle and side plate cutting edge angle); no 'down angle'. Limited power compared to full sized grinders, but might be OK for a 'take-along' compact grinder for touch ups?
Philbert
-
Tried the Oregon 310 grinder side-by-side with a similar looking mini-grinder, and a full sized 511A grinder, sharpening a bunch of .325 pitch, 67 drive link STIHL chains. Obviously, the smaller grinders could not compete with the 511A in terms of power or speed. The fixed head tilt angle also made it hard to match the existing angles on the chains, so I had to take off a little more metal - not an issue if someone only uses these grinders.
Light duty. Simple to set up, easy to use, quiet (like a sewing machine motor), takes up very little space. Could be OK for light touch ups on smaller gauge chains. Or by someone who sharpens infrequently, has a light touch, and a little patience.
Advantages of the Oregon 310 (right) over my 'Infinity' brand 'HF-style' grinder (left):
- cast aluminum base, instead of plastic;
- larger, more effective chain holding dog on the vise;
- accessible motor brushes;
- came with additional 3/16" grinding wheel, dressing brick, wheel template, extra motor brushes;
- better (but not perfect) owner's manual;
- Oregon support (if needed).
All things equal, I would choose the Oregon over the generic grinder, if I was picking a mini-grinder. But the generic HF grinders are often available for about half the price. Some of this difference can be attributed to the advantages noted. Maybe some of this difference will dampen out as more vendors and discounters start carrying the 310?
Will continue to play with these, and maybe try them for portable use,etc.
Philbert
-
Nice write up for us budget minded folks. What was the price comparisons between them?
-
What was the price comparisons between them?
The generic HF-type was under $40 shipped off eBay.
The Oregon was $85 ('sale' price from $90) from Northern Tool.
Philbert
-
Replacement wheel (made in Italy - right) vs OEM supplied wheel (made in China - left). Frankly, I was expecting the Italian wheels as OEM on an Oregon product.
ID is correct on the replacement wheel, but OD and thickness also slightly different. Coarser grit on the replacement wheel too. Sent the defective wheel back to Oregon, but will try to compare the new wheel against old one from memory, and against the 1/8 wheels on other grinders. Coarseness of grit could have a big impact on grinding with these small motors.
Philbert
-
I like coarse with light touch. My wheels from Madsen's I got for USG are super coarse
-
Replacement wheel (made in Italy - right) vs OEM supplied wheel (made in China - left).
I like coarse with light touch.
BIG difference!
Wow! Like using a sharp versus dull chain. It was so much fun that I ran in and grabbed another chain to grind (I like to grind outside).
Molemab wheels are are sale right now at Bailey's - might pick up a few of those.
http://www.baileysonline.com/Chainsaw-Chain/Chain-Grinders-Wheels/Chain-Grinding-Wheels/Chain-Grinding-Wheels-4-1-8-Diameter/Molemab-Grinding-Wheel-4-1-8-x-3-16.axd
Philbert
-
OK - down to $75 (+ shipping) on eBay now.
Must be my posts that are driving sales!
Philbert
-
I picked up a pair of 520-120 grinders, looking to set one up in the garage/shop to tackle the wall of once used chains I am too lazy to hand file.
I read through the manual and it looks like I need to change wheels for rakers, which seems crappy.
this thread seems to say that the included wheels are junk and I should get better wheels. Does Oregon make better wheels or do I need to buy elsewhere, I prefer to buy wholesale in case I like the setup well enough to buy in bulk for resale.
Are there any really good youtube vids that show the right way to get a good result with an Oregon grinder?
sorry for the million questions
Dave
-
I picked up a pair of 520-120 grinders, looking to set one up in the garage/shop to tackle the wall of once used chains I am too lazy to hand file.
I read through the manual and it looks like I need to change wheels for rakers, which seems crappy.
this thread seems to say that the included wheels are junk and I should get better wheels. Does Oregon make better wheels or do I need to buy elsewhere, I prefer to buy wholesale in case I like the setup well enough to buy in bulk for resale.
Are there any really good youtube vids that show the right way to get a good result with an Oregon grinder?
sorry for the million questions
Dave
Oregon wheels are ok, the wheels that come with the import grinders are terrible.
Molemab makes good wheels for the Oregon, I like the 5/16" thick wheel for rakers.
-
I picked up a pair of 520-120 grinders, . . . this thread seems to say that the included wheels are junk and I should get better wheels.
Dave, the grinders you bought are a replacement for the 511A/511AX full-sized grinders. They are probably made in Italy (?) and come with the pink, Italian grinding wheels (?) - please correct me if I am wrong. http://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/accessories/BenchGrinder_520-120.htm
The cheap wheels I mentioned came on the smaller, Oregon 310, grinder, made in China, and supplied with fine, brown wheels, also made in China, that were much lower in quality and performance. I would start with the wheels that came with yours, and see how they work.
Yes, you have to change wheels to grind the depth gauges. Some guys dedicate a grinder just for this task - sometimes they buy a used one off of CL, or buy one of the $120 clones for this purpose. Worthwhile if used in a production mode to have 3 grinders, set up with 1/8", 3/16", and 1/4" (or 5/16") wheels.
There are a number of threads on using these grinders on different forums. My top tips:
- take lots of little 'taps', not big ones, to avoid burning cutters (all 'dots' and no 'dashes' if you ever learned Morse code);
- dress the wheels frequently to expose fresh abrasive, not just to maintain the shape (at least once per chain loop, and anytime grinding performance changes);
- only take the wheel down as far as you would file the cutters - go back and clean out the gullets on a second pass (move chain stop back 1/2 turn or so) if needed;
- don't assume that the Left and Right cutters will come out the same. I grind all of the Left cutters first, then just one of the Right cutters. Stop, hold it back-to-back with one of the Left cutters, and adjust the chain stop or wheel depth accordingly.
Take your time and you will soon fall into a rhythm.
Philbert
-
Does Oregon make better wheels or do I need to buy elsewhere, I prefer to buy wholesale in case I like the setup well enough to buy in bulk for resale.
As srcarr52 mentioned, Molemab makes replacement wheels for these grinders. They are sold individually through Bailey's, and offered in bulk through Stens. When on sale at Baiiey's they go for around $11 or $12 each, for your size grinder. These have a slightly different grit than Oregon branded wheels (one is 60 grit and one is 80 grit as I recall).
Bailey's also carries the resinoid wheels for these grinders: https://www.baileysonline.com/Chainsaw-Chain/Chain-Grinders-Wheels/Chain-Grinding-Wheels/Chain-Grinding-Wheels-5-3-4-Diameter/Molemab-Black-Resin-Grinding-Wheel-5-3-4-x-1-8.axd These are similar in appearance to cut-off wheels, and are less likely to 'burn' a cutter, and slightly less expensive to buy. You might want to try one. They give off a phenolic smell, however, so I prefer to only use them out doors.
http://chainsawrepair.createaforum.com/chain/chainsaw-chain-grinder-wheels/msg43656/#msg43656
Philbert
-
As you can tell from previous posts, Oregon wheels are not always made by the same company.
At first I expected them to all be made in Italy? Ergo the grinders like the 511A were made in Italy?
Not so, If you start looking at the center paper on Oregon wheels, in addition to Italy, you will see USA, Canada, & even China.
I always assumed the Oregon Italian made wheels to be Molemabs? Maybe not?
I don't consider Far Eastern made wheels to be worthwhile no matter what the price?
-
I will start with the wheels I have, I may set up the second grinder for rakers. These chains are once used never sharpened and I want them to be nice enough to use on saws for sale.
It is probably easier to change the cutter wheel every once in a while to do the pico chains than to swap out the raker wheel all the time. We go through a lot fewer pico chains as the climber likes to hand file and his saw never cuts on the ground.
any idea how many 3/8" .050 20" chains I might get out of one wheel?
stupid thing is I had three grinders but sold them :(
thanks for the pointers
Dave
-
It is probably easier to change the cutter wheel every once in a while to do the pico chains than to swap out the raker wheel all the time.
Very easy to swap wheels on these grinders..
any idea how many 3/8" .050 20" chains I might get out of one wheel?
Dozens. Maybe hundreds. Especially if you are just touching up cutters, and not re-shaping them, or restoring rocked chains.
It's always good to have an extra wheel in case you drop one.
Philbert
-
I change back and forth for 3/8 and 3/8LP. Cant remember off hand but thinking 3/8LP and 325 on same wheel.
-
Cant remember off hand but thinking 3/8LP and 325 on same wheel.
Depends on the chain, and how worn it is. I have sharpened some older .325 pitch that has physically smaller cutters - the 3/16" wheel just 'did not look right' on them. Some people also like to use the 1/8" wheel when the cutters are worn down towards their end of life, and lower, as well as shorter.
One of the things we get to decide when sharpening our own chains.
Philbert
-
I was wrong. 3/8 .325 on same wheel. Now if it is the older smaller cutter .325 that uses the 5/32 file I use the 3/8LP picco wheel. Like on the .325 LG chain.
Stihl USG wheels to use. http://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent/CMSFileLibrary/instructionmanuals/USG_sawchainangles_chart.pdf
-
I continue to use the new Oregon 310 grinder, which is kind of fun, since it is small, simple and quiet. Not for heavy use, but I have a number of chains that just need touch-up grinding, and are sharpened at the default 30°/60°/0° angles.
I have have had some issues that should have been addressed before the grinder was released:
- error in wheel arbor hole size (replaced by Oregon);
- inferior, fine grit wheels (replaced with Oregon and Molemab wheels);
- specified 1/4 inch depth gauge wheel could not be mounted (returned wheel);
- motor hits chain stop and support post with 1/2 cutter life left and a fairly new wheel (raised issue with Oregon).
I hope that they address these issues, because it could be a nice sharpening tool for the right application.
Philbert
-
For a guy not as well versed mechanically as you, this would have been a failure for a product satisfaction situation and caused a return or a lot of hard feelings on everyone's part?
-
Oregon says that they addressed 3 concerns with these grinders: replacing the out-of-spec 3/16" wheels; installing a longer arbor to accommodate the 1/4" wheel for depth gauges; replacing the chain stop on the vise so that it does not hit the motor. The replacement unit I received still had all of these issues, which was disappointing.
There is still a place for a higher quality version of these 'mini-grinders'. They are small, easy to move/store, simple to use, quiet, relatively inexpensive, and can do a good job with the right wheels. They can be a good choice for the right user: someone who is satisfied with the 30°/60°/0° grind; who is mostly doing 'touch-up sharpening'; sharpens a modest amount of chains; and does not want to spend $300 on full-sized grinder.
I hope that they get these issues resolved. If you decide to try one of these Oregon mini-grinders please inspect it carefully upon receipt to make sure that you get one of the updated units.
Philbert
-
Do these have serial numbers on them? If so maybe can tell by that for updated ones, starting from #####?
-
Do these have serial numbers on them?
Not to my knowledge. I think that they were trying to 're-work' the inventory that they had in-stock, and just screwed up by sending me a replacement that had not been checked. Poor QC/QA.
It's pretty easy to check by mounting both wheels on the arbor to see if they fit, and by seeing how much clearance there is between the motor housing and the chain positioning stop. Most people will probably not use the optional 1/4" depth gauge wheel, but you can mount the 3/16" wheel and add a washer or piece of heavy cardboard to see if a 1/4" wheel would fit on the arbor threads.
Philbert
-
FYI,
Philbert
-
Quote from: DefinitiveDave on September 29, 2015, 03:15:12 pm
"Are there any really good youtube vids that show the right way to get a good result with an Oregon grinder?"
Ran across these YouTube videos the other day, based on your new 520 grinders, but really apply to most grinders of that type (aside from a few features). They are pretty good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKzH3YI3Raw (*Set up)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKB1gqhfB7o (*Use)
Philbert