Chainsaw Repair
Husqvarna - Stihl - Poulan - Jonsered - Dolmar chainsaws and more => Stihl => Topic started by: jmester on November 24, 2015, 10:53:30 pm
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I am thinking on doing an arctic setup on one of my 660. Going to check on pricing tomorrow. Wanted to see if they work well and how well they hold up. I love cutting trees but I hate cold hands.
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Never used a stihl heated handle. C heated handle, W heated carb.
Have had it on a husky and worked fine.
I like the old school heated handles on my jonsered 490 and partner 5000 the best. No carb heat on them, but used exhaust to rear handle and front handle and was adjustable. I have pics of this set up.
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I am not going to do the heated carb option just the handles. The parts are pretty expensive. Would be better to buy one that has the stuff on it already.
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Ordered the parts today. Most of the stuff is back ordered. The parts guy and I where both saying around a month to get all the pieces but I guess we will see. Think this is going to make winter cutting a whole lot more fun.
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Found that some of the parts are all ready NLA. No surprise really heated handles saws are not that popular at least where I live. I will post the part numbers here in a bit. I found one of the parts that was NLA in my parts bin brand new. I was thankful for that. The other I found a guy in ct that had 2 of them, I bought them. Took about 2 hours to find them on the bay.
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No folks out west and up north in the cold. need numbers ;)
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Stihl is to of quit making the arctic saws , If you find a new one buy it , The stihl heated works better than the husky heated to me , but the 562 heated works not bad, the 372 heated not as good
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1110 432 9200 grommet fits on the back of the on/off switch on most Arctic saws and regular saws like 031
076/090 on regular ignition kill switch.
1118 432 2200 nut Mainly for Arctic saws. This nut attaches the switch to The carb box. It has a long
Shoulder so that the end of the switch is covered and protected.
Also could not get the 2 wire generator or the flywheel that goes with it. But I would not say for sure that they are NLA. As the Stihl distributer I have has never sold some of the parts and my not be in there system in witch they say non order able part. But my dealer called them and some of the parts they added to there system.
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11184322200 cross ref hex nut M12 stihl 028 361 032 038 044 066 660 064 361 the newest saw. Might look at that.
Showing on 361 http://www.motoculture-jean.fr/upload/pdf/MS361_MS361C.pdf
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11104329200 in stock pricey using ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stihl-Parts-STIHL-GROMMET-1110-432-9200-Handheld-Equipment-STL-11104329200-/131425796185
Same place $3 but shipping must be killer. http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/STL-11104329200.html
Pic of it. http://www.lsengineers.co.uk/grommet-stihl-part-no-1110-432-9200.html bunch of saws listed.
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you can still find the odd 461 heated here but there getting hard to find , dealers only have them , They never made the 661 with heated which is a shame
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On the 1118 part number I called Stihl USA they say NLA. Glad I got the couple I found. It is a shame that they don't make there newer saws with heated handles. Guess the market is just not there or the market is there the price is just to much.
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Have heard Stihl is no longer going to make Arctic saws.
As I mentioned before some of the stuff is already NLA I have some more to add.
1122 400 1202 flywheel
1128 404 3501 generator 1-wire.
1122 440 3009/3002 wiring harness the two harness fit a saw with carb and handle heat with either single
Or 2 wire generator.
I have the 1122 400 1218 flywheel witch has a narrow magnet width of 6mm witch is to work with the 1128 404 3501 1 wire generator. The 1202 flywheel has a 10.5 magnet width to use the 2 wire generator. I have both generators coming 1 used and a new 2 wire coming from Stihl. I will try them both and see how they work. I guess if you have or run heated saws now is the time to get some part stored up. I have looked and there is not a lot of used stuff out there. Should have the generators and 1 back ordered grommet next week some time.
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I can't believe they don't sell enough of those to keep making them. Husky seems to have them in all of the popular pro saws.
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That was my thought exactly. But Stihl all ready has a higher price point than husky at least in my area. Add a couple hundred more for heated and it is cheaper to buy a husky.
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True
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(http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh535/jmester/image_8.jpeg) (http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/jmester/media/image_8.jpeg.html)
Finally got all the parts. Started with knocking out the cut outs for the 2 black grommets. Then drilled the hole for the on/off switch. Need to clean the whole saw. I will post some pics along the way. The service manual has some pretty good pics to help, but it would be nice to see one in person.
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Glad you finally got the parts for one.
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Dolmar is making heated saws also.
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(http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh535/jmester/image_9.jpeg) (http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/jmester/media/image_9.jpeg.html)
Got the case cleaned up this morning. Ready to start installing parts.
Thanks Mike, I hope it is worth the time, money and trouble
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Dolmar does not make a 90cc saw anymore. I have been thinking on getting rid of a couple saws to try me a Dolmar.
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One of the dealers in NY was saying they're hoping to bring a bigger saw out this year I believe. It will be interesting to see what they come up with if they do build one.
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(http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh535/jmester/image_14.jpeg) (http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/jmester/media/image_14.jpeg.html)
(http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh535/jmester/image_11.jpeg) (http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/jmester/media/image_11.jpeg.html)
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(http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh535/jmester/image_12.jpeg) (http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/jmester/media/image_12.jpeg.html)
(http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh535/jmester/image_10.jpeg) (http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/jmester/media/image_10.jpeg.html)
(http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh535/jmester/image_13.jpeg) (http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/jmester/media/image_13.jpeg.html)
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Making some progress.
I think Nate @ performance outdoor equip was saying that he had heard Dolmar was working on a 90cc saw as well. I would be interested to see what they come up with as well.
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(http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh535/jmester/image_16.jpeg) (http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/jmester/media/image_16.jpeg.html)
(http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh535/jmester/image_15.jpeg) (http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/jmester/media/image_15.jpeg.html)
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Wiring in the carb box and connected. Need to finish cleaning some parts and put it the rest of the way together.
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Looking good there.
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Forgot to put on a piece of insulating tubing and went to pull the wires apart on the rear handle heating element and pulled the one wire clear off the element. Guess it will be another couple of weeks till I can have heated handles. Unless someone here has one they would like to part with.
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(http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh535/jmester/image_17.jpeg) (http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/jmester/media/image_17.jpeg.html)
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I am mad and sad all at the same time. But it is what it is.
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That sucks.
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Just hope I can get another one.
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I see Stihl makes the 661 in an arctic version.
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661 can be had with heated handles and in Arctic. Only thing is you can not get them in the states. Seems a little backwards to me.
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With the canadian dollar a heated full wrap is around $1100 delivered right now.
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After watching this. Sure makes the old heated from muffler heated handles that were adjustable front and rear look so simple in design.
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I hope it works good and last for a good long time. Heating the handles with the exhaust does sound simple.
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Have finally used this thing to cut some timber. Sure does a good job. Just that little bit of added comfort goes along way as the day goes on. Wish I would have done this years ago.
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Yep ;) Dont know whatcha missing till you tried it.
I had a couple little saws with heated handles. 346 490 5000 and it was the cats meow on a cold snowy day out helping folks cut firewood.
Rear handles dont heat up though do they on these new ones? I dont remember the 346 doing so. But the old 490 5000 did.
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Both handles heat up. I agree super nice.
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The 266xpg rest handle gets nice and warm.
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Trying to help a guy with setting up a heated handle 066.
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Thanks for any help Jason, here is what I am starting with 066 poly case. I believe the serial started with 137
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I have been digging and looking at ipls looks like most or all of the parts from a 660W should work out on your 066.
1128 404 3501 generator
1122 400 1218 flywheel for heated handles
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Make sure you watch out when you run your Wiring Harness up near the top av mount the Grommet holder on your case is broken.
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All set thanks to Jockeyduece! Parts on the way...
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Looks great.
There is a foam piece that sandwiches the rear heating element under the black handle molding. Maybe it is there and I just can't see it. I think it is there to help keep pressure on the heating element so it does not peel up over time. Part # 1121 791 9000(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181116/2e39e86310bc618fe8943e4edc1e311b.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181116/2973e5c8e649d631eeb99e3dd8bef9eb.jpg)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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The bottom pic has the piece I am talking about.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Thanks - will order it with the other parts
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Not sure who you are gettin your parts from, put member here Nate fordf150 got me the parts I needed. My local Stihl dealer said most of the parts were NLA. It was mainly because there distributer never sold or stocked any of the parts. His/Nate's distributer had most of the parts in stock. Glad to see it is coming together for you. Do you have an IPL and SM for the 660?
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I have about 15 years experience with running Stihl saws in cold Northern B.C. conditions,working at a big Stihl dealership. Stihl saws always ran very well in extremely hot climates and wouldn't vapour lock like the other brands because the Stihl carb box is so well isolated from any engine heat. However this design became a curse when running them is sub-zero cold,-40 was not an uncommon temp. these saws had to run in,but the carbs received absolutely no engine heat and consequently the saws would freeze up and quit while the Husky's ran fine. In 1984/1984 Stihl had no fixes or "Winter" kits and our shop really struggled to keep them running. Finally Stihl started making winter kits you could purchase and install on different models and they worked well. Then eventually you could buy a new Stihl with the Arctic kit installed and heated handlebars too which is the way to go.Maybe they will discontinue the Arctic versions but I would still think that the "Winter Kits" (Without heated handle parts) will still be available,I guess if you want heated bars you might have to just purchase the parts?
In any event I can tell you their winter kits kept them running fine,and are essential in extreme cold conditions.
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In 1980 my first 038AV came with a winter air filter rubber flanged cover and rewind housing plate.
1984 my 034 came with a rubber flanged rear cover too along with the plate.
But my 064 in '86 was the best at the time running in -30 to -40 with its HD winter kit.
The 044 in '88 didn't have a flanged cover available, had to use duct tape.
Winter of 1991-'92 I field tested a 044 for the factory that had heat coming from the muffler to the carb via a copper tube.
1992 my new 066 Mag Arctic came with a electronic heated carb. Carb heat was thermostatically controlled to be 77° F year round. I never logged with that saw though.
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I remember around 1990 for the 930 Jonsered you could buy a heated carb kit from Jonsered,consisting of a generator that installed under the flywheel and a heated pad that mounted in front or the carb,but was too expensive and most "Jonny-reds" weren't known to ice up the carbs,they generally ran ok in cold weather without any mods, of course they did have the typical little window in the top cover you could open to suck some warm air from the cylinder.
I've never seen the 044 muffler heat you mentioned,but I once saw an ingenious heated handlebar a guy installed on an old 051. He attached a small copper tube to the muffler which went in one end of his full wrap handlebar and blew right thru and came out the other end,it actually worked very well and he had a small 1/4 turn brass valve in the line so he could adjust how much heat went thru the handlebar,I was impressed! So simple yet it worked well,and didn't cost a couple hundred dollars,just about $10 of parts..I think a guy could build something simple like that at home for one of his own modern saws on that principle...
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The Jonsereds like the 930 had no problem getting heat from the cylinder to the carb through the intake manifold bolts.
That 044 with the heat tube to the carb was just a factory experimental. Partner chainsaws had a muffler heating system tied into the handles. Was adjustable but many complained not adjustable enough.
Jonsered had the first electronic heated handles around 1975.
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I had the partner heated both handle ones on 5000 490. Muffler exhaust through tubes.
Page 6 has some pics where I had to redneck the tubes for hit on the 5000 plus with tygon to the oem tubes. http://chainsawrepair.createaforum.com/partner/partner-5000-plus/msg4722/#msg4722
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Kevin, those are cool setups. You can see they had to put a heat vent hole in the top covers like on a 550/562. The tubes were blocking the normal path of the cylinder cooling air flow.
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@trappermike, send me a PM if you want.
I got some stories to share with you. You probably know these guys out in B.C.
Ron Hartill, Al Boyko, Ed Braun, Karl Bischoff, Glen Erickson, Bob and Holly Walker.
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I know most of those guys from the Loggers sports circuit in the 80's and early 90's,Ron Hartil was a nice guy but I could never beat him,came second to him in one event and was quite proud. I was just a mechanic from a big saw shop who like to build racing 2-strokes but only went in local events,I wasn't part of the circuit. I remember when Ed Braun lopped a few toes off doing the standing block chop in running shoes.
I'm pretty old and dumb with computers so I'm not sure how to chat on this site,I'll try.
My email is trappermike@telus.net
I actually prefer to chat on skype,much easier than endless typing which I'm slow at...
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Thanks Mike, Skype doesn't work for me as I got too many distractions in my house,Lol. Kids, wife and dogs.
I started logging as a faller here in northern Manitoba in 1974 at 16. My first skidder operator partner Dale Quinn moved on to logging in Prince George/ Grande Prairie around 1979.
Around 1983 he showed up at a local Saskatchewan competition with a b-bomb hotsaw he bought off Ron Hartill. He couldn't get it to run in the competition and a couple of bikers in the crowd were yelling insults at him. Dale's ex stripper girlfriend yelled to the bikers to "F" off and took a swing at one of them.
In the under hand chop Dale put his axe into his shin.
Never heard from Dale again for 35 years until a year ago when I friended him on Facebook. It turned out he did pretty good in the B.C. logging sports despite his rough beginnings.
Apparently he got Ron's b-bomb running pretty good and even won the PNE Canadian 100cc title once.
I competed only a few times in the Canlog competitions due to living here in Manitoba so far from B.C. But I did come close tying Ron Hartill in the 100cc and under class in Sayward in 1988. Had a good visit with him at his home at Cowichan Bay. Learned lots from him.
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Ron Hartil lived close to me when I worked in Duncan in 1989,he used to stop by the shop. I went in Sayward competition in 1989,didn't win but my brother video taped it and when watching it later he had taped one of Hartl's runs,THEN he played it in slow motion and viola-in the slo-mo I finally saw a trick Ron used to be so fast on the starts,I adopted and practiced that trick and it made my starts much faster! Bob Walker was a great guy ,his wife nice too. Most of the Pro competitors were well sponsored,I wasn't of course and Stihl never sponsored anyone but the B.C. Stihl rep supplied me with saws and parts under the table,my goal was to beat the kart engines in hotsaw with a Stihl saw(090),it was a fearsome saw,it was faster than the McCulloch kart motors,but of course my lack of experience was a detriment,but it was fun.
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I built a 090 running a 34mm alky carb and pipe in the early '80s. But went on building myself a YZ125 bike saw because someone else built a 400cc Husqvarna bike saw.
My YZ and my brothers Mac 101 kart saws built by Bob Walker beat the 400 almost every time in our local small wood.
In 1989 Bob Braden a Stihl dealer from Regina, Saskatchewan bought a 090 built by Stihl rep John Curry from London, Ontario head office. It was fast beat the Macs no problem and gave me a good run for my money.
It had a cut off head expoxied external tranfers and a wicked pipe and carb setup. Fastest 090 I ever seen.
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Yes you really had 2 well modded 090's. On mine I designed and installed a billet cyl. head,5 transfer ports,7 windows in the piston,full race port timing,mx bike reed valve assembly,electronic ign. from another saw,and the huge HR carb,I was wanting to put a 34mm Mikuni on it but it ran well and I had no time with 3 other competition saws to build,044,100cc 064,and an 084 which was actually a pre-production test saw,no serial #,just #14 stamped on the crankcases,that one the Stihl rep gave me. I designed all my pipes.
I'm just glad I never injured myself running those things with so little experience. I sold all my saws to a nice American guy in 1992 who continued to run them for over 20 years on the pro circuit there, he won quite a few trophies and they never quit or blew up!
I can see you really were involved in racing.
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You can see the head,reedbox etc in this photo...
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Pretty neat stuff
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Has anyone found something to reattach the rear heating element. Stihl wants a tight bond to the rear handle as the element will overheat and burn out.
They come with a stickie backing new. Not sure its going to stick properly once removed. With out some kind of additional adhesive.
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Has anyone found something to reattach the rear heating element. Stihl wants a tight bond to the rear handle as the element will overheat and burn out.
They come with a stickie backing new. Not sure its going to stick properly once removed. With out some kind of additional adhesive.
I'll post this question in the CRG. Sure will get feedback in mins.
Just posted with pic. 1020am. I will check later on for ya.
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@jmester they are coming in = I’ve used two part JB weld heat resistant and Koso for heated grips on sleds. Never an issue unless you need to remove. Gold standard Aquanet may help the original tape.
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@jmester another that sound interesting = There is a foil adhesive faced thermal tape for mounting heat sinks in electronics. I think it supposed to be highly conductive
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@jmester the smartest guy I know on stihl gave this info.
Trevor Saville
Since the US stopped participating in the Arctic program in 2012 the knowledge has waned on how to deal with these... it is best to use a thermally conductive epoxy. I've attached a link of what I use. More importantly the adhesion is also helped by the black foam rubber insert applying pressure to the element in the handle. If it is degraded I cut a piece out of an old wet suit to apply pressure. Make sure to check the resistance of the element before installing. It's on the chart. https://www.techni-tool.com/product/484-434-8329TCM-6ML?gclid=CjwKCAiAiKuOBhBQEiwAId_sKzRD26zrpecVMNgh_IX47APPftIOVYv2qQtZTuUo8GBdN-vODLKv9BoC1NkQAvD_BwE&fbclid=IwAR2ydu_WFzUOvVXhggoKJMcNT5c1QN69EJnbRrNXyYVm6O81MVL6SUD6ytA
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Dang their proud of those dang things. 1128 434 5000 11284345000
024W, 026W, 034W, 036W, 044W, 046W, 064W, 066W
MS 260W, MS 360W, MS 440W, MS 460W, MS 660
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Thanks Kevin.
That was what i was looking for. I do have one question if the heating element needs to be removed to say replace the tank. Is it still some what pliable to remove or is the element destroyed to be removed.
Thank you for helping me out
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Got some ordered.
Thanks again
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Thanks Kevin.
That was what i was looking for. I do have one question if the heating element needs to be removed to say replace the tank. Is it still some what pliable to remove or is the element destroyed to be removed.
Thank you for helping me out
Tommy = I've removed lots of factory Stihl heat elements from rear handle, they usually come off really easy and are still fully functional.
The workshop manual will give an ohm rating for the element at room temp, if it meets spec, it should be good to go.
Trevor = I only glue the ones that won't stick. if they stick and I can get good pressure with the insert I let it go. It's the ones that have been removed twice that cause issues.
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@jmester above info you ask for too.
Only other one we though might work. Only posted ones that made since here for ya.
thermal heat sink tape
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I could only imagine some of the responses that were giving.
Thank you to the guys on CRG. I knew somebody out there has been in the same boat or had the same question.
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I could only imagine some of the responses that were giving.
Thank you to the guys on CRG. I knew somebody out there has been in the same boat or had the same question.
No nothing bad at all really, compared to that other dead forum I was shown same question . We rolled at some of those answers there.
Got some smart stihl folks in the know in the CR group.