Chainsaw Repair

Chain - Grinders - Filing - Wood Milling - Tools - Welding - Machinist - Mowers - Tillers => Tool Shed => Topic started by: Cut4fun . on December 30, 2011, 08:59:26 pm

Title: Penetrating oils tested
Post by: Cut4fun . on December 30, 2011, 08:59:26 pm
Does this sound right to you guys?

Machinist's Workshop magazine tested penetrants for break out torque on rusted nuts with significant results!

They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrants with the
control being the torque required to remove the nut from a
"scientifically rusted" environment (obviously a BIG nut!).

Penetrating oil ...... Average torque

     

        None ....................... 516 ft lbs

     

        WD-40 ................... 238 ft lbs

     

        PB Blaster .............. 214 ft lbs

     

        Liquid Wrench ..... 127 ft lbs

     

        Kano Kroil ............. 106 ft lbs

     

        ATF-Acetone mix....53 ft lbs

     

        The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic
        transmission fluid and acetone. Note the "home brew" was better than any
        commercial product in this one particular test. Our local machinistgroup mixed up a batch and we all now use it with equally good results.

     

        Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about as good as "Kroil" for about 20%
        of the price.

     
       Another method to try when 'nothing works' is to heat the nut up with a torch to almost red hot, apply Bee's Wax to the threads and base of the nut, let it sit for about 30 min then remove the nut.  If this doesn't work, get a nut cracker or a hacksaw !  A trick I learned from Dugan that had been around and passed it on to us.  We used this method to remove big safety valve nuts that had not been removed for almost 24 years when nothing else worked. BO
     

        Happy knuckle busting !

Copy and pasted from a email my dad sent me.
Title: Re: Penetrating oils tested
Post by: Al Smith on December 30, 2011, 10:30:14 pm
That makes sense .Acetone is a solvent which would carry the tranny fluid into the offending tighter that a mouses ear offending restriction .

Incidently last summer I ordered a gallon of kroil which freed up a stuck Ford 300   six in my old pick up truck which resides in the woods in semi retirement .Good heavens every month I get a flier on good deals from them .

Good info .I have a stuck D4 Cat vintage 1940 that given enough time I will ressurect .

I'll retire in a couple of years but will have to live at least another 30 in good health to ever get all the stuff done . ;D
Title: Re: Penetrating oils tested
Post by: rms61moparman on December 30, 2011, 10:37:21 pm
I've heard good things about acetone and ATF but for the things I do a decent shot of Aero Kroil works great.

Mike
Title: Re: Penetrating oils tested
Post by: Al Smith on December 30, 2011, 10:48:38 pm
I think a lot of that stuff was just things shade tree mechanics dreamed up .For example Berrymans Chem-tool was originally make in Lima Ohio ,where I live .

I think it was a brain child of Charlie Paxton who was a stock car builder may his soul rest . In later years Charlie lost both legs to diabetes  but still built engines even from a wheel chair . Pretty impressive to a 16 year old of which I was when I met him .
Title: Re: Penetrating oils tested
Post by: bloodontheice on January 02, 2012, 07:12:59 pm
In my line of work it's not so much getting nuts loose, but pulleys off shafts, and
and wheel hubs off axles.

The best product we've found is Castle Thrust, but at 7$ a can we've done some un scientific
testing and PB Blaster, and Liquid wrench are almost as good and under 4$ a can.

Never heard of the accetone and ATF trick, but i do have both sitting around so i'll try it out.
Title: Re: Penetrating oils tested
Post by: mdavlee . on January 02, 2012, 08:09:51 pm
I'll have to mix some of the acetone/atf together and give it a shot. A friend of mine used straight atf sometimes for penetrating oil and it worked alright.
Title: Re: Penetrating oils tested
Post by: farmboy on January 03, 2012, 11:09:41 am
Mix I found somewhere was 50/50 acetone and brake fluid.  Tried it, it works pretty good.  Am gonna try the atf blend to see if it's better.
Shep
Title: Re: Penetrating oils tested
Post by: Jeff on January 03, 2012, 07:59:39 pm
Where would you buy acetone? I have never seen it at least I dont think I have.
Title: Re: Penetrating oils tested
Post by: Cut4fun . on January 03, 2012, 08:24:03 pm
I have seen it at my local True Value hardware stores.
Title: Re: Penetrating oils tested
Post by: Jeff on January 04, 2012, 04:16:54 pm
I bought a quart today at Lowes $6.88
Title: Re: Penetrating oils tested
Post by: Al Smith on January 04, 2012, 08:21:40 pm
Any paint store or  one that sells paint .

You can take an old natural bristle paint brush that's stiff as a board if you've used oil base paint ,soak it in acetone and it will limber right back up given enough time .

Now I've never screwed up a paint brush in my life but I always seem to find somebody too lazy to clean them up so I have to resort to extreme measures at times . --mumble grumble --- >:(

While on the subject as slight skew of the subject don't try acetone on exploded nylon used for water based paint ,won't work .What will work is boiling water and ERA or liquid Tide .Cheap brush toss it but I buy 20 dollar brushs so I don't .Still cuss though .
Title: Re: Penetrating oils tested
Post by: farmboy on January 10, 2012, 11:32:21 am
Any paint store or  one that sells paint .

You can take an old natural bristle paint brush that's stiff as a board if you've used oil base paint ,soak it in acetone and it will limber right back up given enough time .

Now I've never screwed up a paint brush in my life but I always seem to find somebody too lazy to clean them up so I have to resort to extreme measures at times . --mumble grumble --- >:(

While on the subject as slight skew of the subject don't try acetone on exploded nylon used for water based paint ,won't work .What will work is boiling water and ERA or liquid Tide .Cheap brush toss it but I buy 20 dollar brushs so I don't .Still cuss though .
I'm with Al I buy good brushes too.   Takes me 30-45 min. to really clean them Purdys.  Thanks for the tip on Tide.
Shep
Title: Re: Penetrating oils tested
Post by: Moparmyway on November 24, 2015, 03:04:51 pm
Only thing I will add to this old thread is that you MUST shake up the acetone/ATF mix vigorousely and immediately douse liberally. If you let it sit, it seperates out and does not work as well

Title: Re: Penetrating oils tested
Post by: pete on November 25, 2015, 05:07:28 am
Any side effects from the atf acetone mix if left in a motor to soak Was thinking of trying it in a stuck 350 xl honda single My own fault let it sit under rotting tarps for twenty years
And the other if the mix settles out will  a good shakeup make it good to go again
Title: Re: Penetrating oils tested
Post by: Moparmyway on November 25, 2015, 07:01:13 am
Just shake it up again. The acetone will evaporate over time, but its easy to tell if you are still 50/50 due to the seperation. Every once in a while I need to add more acetone to the clear bottle.

If it were me, I would pull the plug and fill the cylinder with Marvel Mystery oil, reinstall the plug, and let it sit for a few days.
Title: Re: Penetrating oils tested
Post by: Al Smith on November 25, 2015, 07:21:38 am
Old trick on a stuck piston .Make sure the valves are closed and the piston not at top or bottom center .Knock the center out of a spark plug and either weld or braze a grease zerk to it .Use a grease gun and fill it full of penetrating fluid,oil etc .The average grease gun will pump nearly 5,000 PSI .--junk yard dawg 101 ---- ;)
Title: Re: Penetrating oils tested
Post by: Moparmyway on November 25, 2015, 07:43:55 am
I did that on a locked up 2 cycle .............. what a mess to clean once the cylinder is off, but it worked like magic

I am guessing that pete wants to try to run the motor after it is free ........... if he grease bombs it, it will need to be torn down so it can be cleaned up before it runs
Title: Re: Penetrating oils tested
Post by: 660magnum on November 25, 2015, 08:05:25 am
Model airplane engines at one time in the later half of the 20th Century were almost exclusively glow ignition and methanol/nitro fueled.

This is a potential rust bucket situation waiting to happen due to the formation of nitric acid as a product of combustion.

A guy wanted to sell me a .30 four stroke that was only run on the test bench and had been submerged in a gallon of clean 10W-30 oil.

I went to his house and sure enough there was a Saito 30 in a clean gallon can of motor oil so I bought it.

That was the rustiest used engine on the inside I had ever bought.

Made it like new but never forgot the experience.

The moral to this story is that being submerged (dropped into) in the motor oil isolated the corrosive inside the engine where it remained to do its dirty deed for years. The oil could have been used to clean the engine but should have been used to more or less flush out the corrosive acid.
Title: Re: Penetrating oils tested
Post by: Cut4fun . on November 25, 2015, 10:10:22 am
I have yet to try the 50/50 mix = being lazy on my end and usually needed in a spray.  Guess I could use one of my 3 oil squirt cans. Never thought of that till now.  ::)

Must have knocked some sense into my head yesterday.  ;D :P :-[
Title: Re: Penetrating oils tested
Post by: Moparmyway on November 25, 2015, 11:28:43 am
3 in 1 oil cans will work, but a few years ago I grabbed a box of 1oz bottles with a needle tip that I can squeeze to saturate the area with. If I squeeze it hard enough, it shoots about 4 feet in a real small stream

Closest I could find was in MSC catalogue, part number 65361578

I can grab a picture later today of the ones I use if you want.

I use for mix gas as primer, acetone/ATF mix, even use 0W-20 Royal Purple in one for lubing my shop machines with
Title: Re: Penetrating oils tested
Post by: pete on November 26, 2015, 05:32:20 am
I have looked at marvel before but cant buy it in australia and a 16 oz bottle in the USA is only 12 bucks but its over a hundred for postage to me so that writes it off as far as being a viable option. It seems like great stuff I have checked plenty of you tube vids on it. You guys have some great stuff I cant get I think PB blaster was another one
Title: Re: Penetrating oils tested
Post by: Cut4fun . on June 27, 2020, 11:03:47 am
Lot of new videos out there testing . Outcomes has changed 2018

https://youtu.be/xUEob2oAKVs

https://youtu.be/dObEK7V-TFU
Title: Re: Penetrating oils tested
Post by: Al Smith on June 27, 2020, 04:44:46 pm
It's an old thread but I did try acetone and tranny oil .I didn't have good luck with it .I don't remember if the tranny oil was petroleum or synthetic but it didn't mix .
Title: Re: Penetrating oils tested
Post by: dpjones on June 29, 2020, 01:13:18 pm
It didn't mix with me at first but keep shaking before use and it will finally mix, now what I used was not senthetic, it was the cheapest, I been using it for several years, works good or better than store bought and don't stink
DJ